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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    6

    Fireplace Electronic Igniter Problems.

    I have a 13 year old NG fireplace with electronic igniter. It is a sealed direct vent unit. The igniter is not coming on any more when I turn the wall switch on (the switch on the unit is always ON).

    It used to fire up with a "click" sound, but it is not there now. Just wondering where I can start to check. Appreciate if some one can tell me what to look for, or any previous postings have this info. Searched few times and cannot find anything appropriate. Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    1,078
    Would need to know the MFG and MODEL #

    When you say it has an electric igniter do you mean it has a standing pilot with piezo spark igniter? Or is it a unit with no pilot that lights the burner directly with an igniter on a 24V system (which is called DSI, Direct Spark Ignition)?

    It sounds like it is a DSI system. If this is the case it could just need a new module and igniter, or just one of those two parts. It is quite common for those parts to just go bad. We replace quite a few DSI modules every year.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    356
    It's impossible to give to a good answer to your problem with out make, model #. I dought it is direct spark but nothing would surlprise me. If its spark to pilot thats different. You need a service tech out there to diagnose the problem. Turn the power off and then on again, if you don't hear spark you need service. There has been some KOOKY controls put on fireplaces in the past. Does anyone remember that crazy DESA vent free unit with the little magnet that stuck to the flame height control? that was weird!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    6
    It is a DSI system. It was made by a local company "Flame Heat" in BC Canada, model DV44EL.

    I just opened up the cover, and there is a G770 KGA-1 IPI control by Johnson Controls at the bottom with a transformer on the side, probably the 24vac transformer.

    What do I check to see if the module or other parts are defective ?

    I just checked on the internet and cannot find replacement part for the KGA-1 model. Can I use G770NGC-4 to replace this one if needed ? What are the differences ? Thanks for the help.
    Last edited by jy1999; 04-03-2007 at 03:42 AM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    1,078
    I don't know anything about that brand or DSI control system. Seems like all the DSI systems are different.

    I googled your control like this "G770KGA" and found some replacement parts. They actually state it is a replacement for the one you have now.

    http://americanhvacparts.com/Merchan...tegory_Code=CB

    That RobertShaw module is what we use in most of our DSI fireplaces for a replacement part. It would require some rewiring to make it work usually. It would probably be a good idea to call a Pro that knows about the DSI fireplaces and have him come check it out.

    There really is no good way of determining which part is bad on DSI. We usually start by testing it with a new module, if that works its fixed. If not then we put in a new igniter with the original module. Next is to try both new parts together.

    Here is a link to my google search
    http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...T:en&q=G770kga

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,273

    Basic DIY troubleshooting

    Since we're not allowed by site rules to give specific instructions on repairs, I'll try to keep this at homeowner level.
    Do you have 110vac coming in?
    Is it polarized, meaning the narrow slot is hot and there is less than 50 mv btw neutral to ground?
    If there is a transformer, what is the output?
    Wire connections?
    Ground connections both at the igniter and module (#1 culprit)?
    Corrosion on igniter rods? Clean wth fine steel wool
    Igniter gap to spec?
    Igniter tips inside flames? If flames being distorted, fix the venting first.
    Getting gas into Fp?
    Burner properly aligned on the orifice spud?
    Vent unobstructed?
    If you are not getting the "clck" of the control closing and the gas valve solenoid opening, your problem might be in the wall switch circuit or its connections to the module. Just remember this is 110 vac, which can kill! This is why a qualified tech should handle it.



    These are a few simple things any homeowner could check. Most of the time, cleaning the igniter tips and making a new, clean ground connection at the igniter does it. If it doesn't, call a qualified technician.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    6
    Thanks guys for the replies.

    I am an electrical engineer and know something about electrical/electronics, that's why I would attempt to fix this electrical problems if they are.

    I just found a Johnson Controls tech bulletin on the IPI, and will do some diagnostics. Will let you know the outcome and may be some more advices.

    Appreciate all the advices and thanks.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    700
    The Johnson G770 was problematic on furnaces, and you may have the same issue, though I never saw that particular control used on a fireplace. Is the control in a blue case? If it turns out to be the control at fault a retrofit to a replacement control, likely a Honeywell, will probably be necessary. In that case some rewiring is req'd. Good luck.
    Question authority!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    6
    Hi Jetstream,

    It is indeed a "blue case" unit. What model of Honeywell would be appropriate for replacement ? From what I read, the old unit has "8 second lock out, and no damper/no rollout...". Just like to get a new unit that can give me a better reliable performance than this one, which has lasted me over 13 years any way.

    I think I can figure the wirings from the tech bulletin and some "advices".

    Thanks.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    700
    They were a problem on furnace applications, but of course a fireplace experiences different conditions. No certainty that the module is the problem here. (But it's sorta suspicious).
    I'm afraid I don't know the proper replacement number. I'd suggest you contact the mfgr and see what they advise.
    Question authority!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    1,078
    The RobertShaw module I linked to above is a good replacement. Thats what we use on the old Heatilator DSI fireplaces. But as others suggested, it might not be the module.

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