ReplyGet 10 prices pick the cheapest ...................
The other nine are ripping you off.....................
Regular Guest
Okay, so I've gotten some bids, and I'm going to get some more. I know all about having Manual J calcs done and will not consider someone that didn't do them.
What else is there to look at? I can think of these things:
- Small co. vs. large co.
- Years in business
- Status with the Registrar of Contractors
- Better Business Bureau standing
- Personal feeling I get from talking to the person. Can I work and communicate effectively with this person?
What else?
Professional Member
Get 10 prices pick the cheapest ...................
The other nine are ripping you off.....................
Last edited by Roscoe; 04-02-2007 at 08:59 AM.
Regular Guest
Get references and talk to the homeowners. It's best if you can find them independently. If you have to ask the contractors the list could be "cherrypicked".Originally Posted by CottyGee
Some suggest getting a NATE contractor. NATE is almost meaningless but it's probably better then nothing.
Read the BBB report thoroughly. Keep in mind that allmost all businesses get complaints at some point. You want to ensure that number of complaints don't look out of proportion to the size of the business. Look for signs that the complaints have been satisfied.
Find out about the actual installers. (experience level, training etc). The person that provides the quote is rarely the installer.
I don't think "small vs large" in itself it very meanigful.
Go down to a HVAC supply house when it's not too busy and ask the manager, "if your home needed HVAC work who would you choose?".
No return.
Get twenty more bids and then invite all the contractors back and have'em slug it out.
Last man standing wins! LOL Just kidding.
But, an observation: I believe you can over think a project and micro-manage it down to the last screw.
Doing this can create friction when you finally make a decision. If I were bidding your job and after seeing this laundry list you have I would be a bit concerned that you would be involving your self in the installation to such an extent that it would be intrusive.
I don't begrudge a a HO to watch, but getting over the shoulder of the installers can be dangerous.
Just my opinion.
Last edited by hvaclover; 04-02-2007 at 10:06 AM.
Professional Member
Right.........
You forgot "drop a nickle on the floor, see who picks it up"
Professional Member
See if any of them are NATE certified if they are then they are at least trying to do the right thing.
Heres the link to locate a contractor in your area
http://www.natex.org/consumer_locator.htm
I remember my first day,It was fun!
Professional Member*
If a person is taking bids I ask them how many, and if they say more than 3 I say you are wasting mine and your time forget it. "most" of our referrals just say come do it, I would rather wait for those than waste hrs. of my time to loose a bid.
Also I might add just because someone does a manual J "my 14 year old son can do one of those" don't mean they are going to do the best job, it will take a lot of common sense to get the right company, one of the best things to look for is attitude trust me.
__________________________________________________ _______________________
“Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards" ~ Vernon Law
"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." ~ John Wooden
"When the teachers become unteachable we're all in trouble" ~ Mr. Bill
"Remember "Pro" is only a name, it's not always a mindset determined to do everything correctly" ~ Mr. Bill
Banned
[QUOTE=CottyGee;1433064]Okay, so I've gotten some bids, and I'm going to get some more. I know all about having Manual J calcs done and will not consider someone that didn't do them.
Which one would you consider the better option? Why? Window dressing.What else is there to look at? I can think of these things:
[LIST][*]Small co. vs. large co.
How many years would you consider enough? Window dressing.[*]Years in business.
If a contractor is on the list in their state, they are a member in good standing until they are removed either voluntarily or not.[*]Status with the Registrar of Contractors
This criteria is very misleading. I've seen very reputable companies with more than their fair share of consumer complaints, many of which were marginal complaints at best. I'd trust their info about as much as I'd trust a "Consumer Reports" magazine.[*]Better Business Bureau standing
This one, along with a verifiable load calculation and design parameters, is the most important aspect by far.[*]Personal feeling I get from talking to the person. Can I work and communicate effectively with this person?
If you've gotten "some bids" and you are going to get "some more", you should have more than enough information regarding what is needed.What else?
It's great that you want to be informed about what is needed but at some point, you're going to have to trust someone and they may not have the lowest bid on the table.
Now, if you're just looking to bid shop and bid chisel, by all means knock yourself out.
You may not like the end result though.
Regular Guest
Thanks for your reply, HVACLover. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "over thinking". I am trying to be an educated consumer. I am doing my due diligence to ensure that I direct my budget in the direction in which returns the most bang for the buck. That's why I'm here on this forum - I want to learn what I need to know as a home owner to ensure I don't get some hack that comes in and charges me an arm and a leg and provides "Hall Of Shame" quality work.
My question on this thread is related to this dilemma - Guy 1 bids let's say $10,000 to do my project. Guy 2 bids let's say $15,000 for my project. Who should I pick?? Is Guy 2 really worth 50% more? Why? Five large is a lot for me! And the results I will live with for the next 15+ years... Oh, and I should probably mention, there are 1,676 listings for Air Conditioning Contractors where I live.
To me, this is one of the most important decisions I've had to make as a consumer. If I buy a car and it's the wrong one, I can sell it. If it's a lemon, I have laws to protect me and a manufacturer that guarantees the thing. I've learned here that the install is as important or maybe more important than anything else. How the heck do I get a quality install???
By the way, I looked up the NATE thing. I've never heard of nearly all of the dealers on the list. There are 3 that are 75%-100% NATE-Certified Technicians and 17 for the "at least 25% NATE Certified Technicians" category. So should I be considering the 3 that are 75-100%? I've never heard of 'em.
Professional Member*
Go down take the NATE test and see if the questions they ask on the test would justify you choosing someone because of the NATE credentials, I will say no more on that.
__________________________________________________ _______________________
“Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards" ~ Vernon Law
"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts." ~ John Wooden
"When the teachers become unteachable we're all in trouble" ~ Mr. Bill
"Remember "Pro" is only a name, it's not always a mindset determined to do everything correctly" ~ Mr. Bill
Regular Guest
The NATE certification is like ASE certification for a car mech. Would you take your car to someone who has not been tested for a base line knowledge???
Regular Guest
That's why you need to understand each contractor's overall "gameplan". Guy 2 might be making major changes to the ductwork to sqeak out as much efficiency and overall home comfort as he can. He might also be using a very experienced installation crew.
Guy 1 might be doing the bare minimum such as just replacing components and taking shortcuts along the way. Maybe his installation crew are new to HVAC and he's assigning them to new installs to gain experience.
In this scenario Guy 2 could be money very well spent. You are doing the right thing by learning all you can and understanding each contractor's proposal in detail.
Don't pick random names out of phone books. Ask friends, neighbors or anyone you can to at least get you a head start thinning down the list.
Regular Guest
Ah - I actually was wondering about the ASE to NATE comparison. I happen to know a bit about ASE, and I wouldn't trust a shop that didn't have ASE certified techs working on my car and an ASE certified Master Mechanic on staff at a ratio of no more than say 4 or 5 to 1. I wouldn't mind a non-ASE guy changing my oil or changing a thermostat (maybe). But my car had better be diagnosed by an ASE guy - preferably the Master tech.
Man - just got off the phone with one of my bidding contractors. He didn't do Manual J. When I asked him why, he said because it had already been done as evidenced by the fact that there was a unit there. So I guess I've really got one bid now. Time to get some more folks out to the house. What a waste of time this has been!
As far as price goes - that's not the primary issue, tho it IS an issue make no mistake! Value is the concept, and I realize that doesn't always mean the lowest price.
If I get someone that automatically does Manual J, we're off to a good start with quality, which is a key part of Value. Who does the actual install is of paramount importance too.
I've got some phone calls to make I guess.
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
So no one was good enough to install or repair an HVAC system untill a few years ago when NATE came out.
Its a paper test, just like the EPA test.
Banned
In my opinion, the NATE testing is a joke. I have a colleague right down the road who just got his NATE certification. Guess what? The guy can't install a piece of toast in a toaster. Me, about as anti-NATE as it gets, constantly bails the guy out on his work, whether it be quality control or just getting the stuff done properly.
Bottom-line, the contractor is either professional and does a professional job. Or he hides behind all these documents that really don't mean(pardon my french) SH*T!!
Regular Guest
As I said base line knowledge. I did not say it gave him common sense that is a personal judgement. Just because you finished training doesn't mean you know it all.
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
If it only tells you the guy has base line knowledge, what good is it.
Banned
Well, would you want the guys that failed the NATE test, working on your system?
God Speed, Jim. We'll miss you - 2-26-23
LOL..
I know a guy that couldn't pass the EPA for low pressure.
He was that companies best chiller guy.
He also taught all the guys that had passed how to install and work on low pressure chillers.
So if somebody talks and fails the nate test, they are no longer qualified to work on systems till they pass.
What says they were qualified before they took the test?
The same thing that says your comapny was qualified before your first employee took his nate test.
Professional Member
Exactly This is one of the first qualifing questions my office manager asks.
"And may I ask how many bids you are getting, and how you got our number"
wrong answers go in the trash....................
Life's too short, I don't waste my time..........
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