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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    457

    Hmm R-22 drop-in mixing

    I have recently become aware of the epidemic practice of 'topping off' HCFC-22 air conditioning systems with other refrigerants, particularly R-422D by service personnel in central Florida. (Yes, I know 422D is for low and medium temp, but the jug IS somewhat green)

    For the most part, the personnel I have personally conversed with contend that this practice is condoned, if not mandated, by their employers.

    Talking to supply house personnel further exposes that this practice is widespread in this area, and I suspect it may be strongly prevalent across Florida and nationally. Many posts here tend to uphold this conjecture.

    I am approaching my 40th year in the industry, and find the lack of professionalism revealed by this to be utterly indefensible.

    I queried RSES and got this reply: "The answer is YES. By topping off with a different refrigerant the tech is creating a non-EPA SNAP approved refrigerant. I'm not sure where to locate the specific regulation but this info is correct from my discussions with EPA officials."

    In our school district all systems that can be drained or vacuumed of their MO, are being retrofitted to R-407C and POE at the time they are being serviced for leaking refrigerant charges.

    Our results have been above our expectations; the systems exhibited exemplary cooling performance and energy consumption characteristics; we have found that in our MO units that can not be easily relieved of the MO charge, MO oil return with R-407C is successfully enhanced with the addition of Supco 88 to thin the MO, in place of the hydrocarbon content in 438A, 422D, etc.

    DuPont has acknowledged that the basic reason for the hydrocarbon content in these blends is to thin the MO in an effort to provide a bit of oil return; the more hydrocarbon in the blend, the better thinning of the MO.

    We've had first-rate oil return results by adding Supco 88 as an alternative to the hydrocarbon content of the 'no-oil-change' refrigerants; probably due to Supco being 98%-99% hydrocarbons.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    33,898
    Don't!

    You won't get the performance possible and you've just contaminated the system. When someone goes to recover it and turn it in to a recycling center, they may have to pay through the teeth because of said mixed gas. If your employer is turning in large tanks of R22 expecting 4 digits in return, doesn't take much of another gas to kill that. He may be paying to get rid of it instead of getting some good bucks.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Lake Ronkonkoma, New York
    Posts
    505
    Heard the same thing from some techs I meet at supply houses here on Long Island. They are calling all the refidgerants on their truck freon. It's becoming a generic term like Kleenex and fridgdaire. They tell the customer they have two different brands and let them choose to use either the expensive freon or the cheaper brand.
    If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    12,195
    So far as I can determine it is SOP around here. Whatever costs less is added and charged out as the same refrigerant in the system.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    3,056
    I thought it was a violation to mix ANY refrigerants. Period.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    orange county, ny
    Posts
    135
    i was under the impression that r22 could not b mixed with any replacements such as mo99 or r422

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    orange county, ny
    Posts
    135
    sorry, didnt mean to send

    i also was under the impression that the two had different oils that could not mix or causes damage.
    please bring me up to speed on that one

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    12,195
    Yes; I have been wondering why the EPA Police haven't arrested them all.

    Any ideas?

    PHM
    ------



    Quote Originally Posted by lytning View Post
    I thought it was a violation to mix ANY refrigerants. Period.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Foothills of NC
    Posts
    44
    Im not convinced using any replacement on the market is good for me. We use a lot of heat pumps in my area and any reduction in performance isnt acceptable. I recommend paying to have the leak repaired and paying for R-22 or looking into installing a new system. I dont plan on selling replacements as long as R-22 is still available.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    3,056
    The eye in the sky is watching, also the eye on your laptop. As soon as BO, I mean OB, gives the command they will pounce.
    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    Yes; I have been wondering why the EPA Police haven't arrested them all.

    Any ideas?

    PHM
    ------

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    12,195

    Think pentane would also work ?

    Does anybody think using pentane would work to enhance oil return?

    That is: oil return when running R407C over the mineral oil?
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

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