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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    72

    New AC with Gas heat unit !

    An older unit has the gas vent pipe going outside with PVC pipe from the basement which is basically a high efficiency furnace and a fresh air intake.

    The new unit will have standard double wall gas vent.

    My question is.. could their be any specific reason originally they used the high efficiency furnace that is being overlooked.

    Plans are to go back with a 13 seer 410A unit with 60,000 BTU Furnace where the PVC will not be needed.

  2. #2
    My understanding is the higher efficiency is cheaper to run. If all the pvc is there why bother running new b vent for a less efficient furnace unless trying to make more from labor and less on equipment

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    SE Pennsylvania
    Posts
    923
    Higher efficiency, the ability to side wall vent with no need for a chimney or flue to the roof. Dont know of any furnaces that use double wall that can be side wall vented. But is has been years since I have installed or serviced residential equipment so I could be wrong.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    12,288
    Why would they have Not used a high efficiency furnace?

    And why would You take out a high efficiency furnace and install an 80%'er? What possible sense does that make? Besides the fact that they are now illegal.

    PHM
    --------






    Quote Originally Posted by MisterFixer View Post
    An older unit has the gas vent pipe going outside with PVC pipe from the basement which is basically a high efficiency furnace and a fresh air intake.

    The new unit will have standard double wall gas vent.

    My question is.. could their be any specific reason originally they used the high efficiency furnace that is being overlooked.

    Plans are to go back with a 13 seer 410A unit with 60,000 BTU Furnace where the PVC will not be needed.
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    794
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterFixer View Post
    An older unit has the gas vent pipe going outside with PVC pipe from the basement which is basically a high efficiency furnace and a fresh air intake.

    The new unit will have standard double wall gas vent.

    My question is.. could their be any specific reason originally they used the high efficiency furnace that is being overlooked.


    Plans are to go back with a 13 seer 410A unit with 60,000 BTU Furnace where the PVC will not be needed.
    I would say that now, PVC vent is "standard". B-vent is hardly ever used in new installations around here, and this isn't a very cold climate. I have only seen 80% furnaces installed in some changeouts that already had b-vent runs..

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    67,913
    Quote Originally Posted by MisterFixer View Post

    My question is.. could their be any specific reason originally they used the high efficiency furnace that is being overlooked.
    How cold does it get in your area, what is the gas rate in your area.

    Might have used high efficiency to save money on the heating bill.
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    1,675
    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    Why would they have Not used a high efficiency furnace?

    And why would You take out a high efficiency furnace and install an 80%'er? What possible sense does that make? Besides the fact that they are now illegal.

    PHM
    --------
    I also agree that replacing a 90% with an 80% isn't the best move unless folks were hurtin for money....bad

    But 80% aren't illegal PHM.....anywhere.....They are still ok to use

    If you were speaking of Regional Energy Efficency rules.....That was set aside for the Northern Tier States

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    12,288
    The supply houses around here tell me that 80% heating units are NLA. "illegal to install now" was stated as their reason why.

    Not true?

    PHM
    -------





    Quote Originally Posted by small change View Post
    I also agree that replacing a 90% with an 80% isn't the best move unless folks were hurtin for money....bad

    But 80% aren't illegal PHM.....anywhere.....They are still ok to use

    If you were speaking of Regional Energy Efficency rules.....That was set aside for the Northern Tier States
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    The Hot South
    Posts
    1,315
    Down here in the South, 80% furnaces are the norm and almost no one uses the high efficiency furnaces. I've only seen the PVC flue pipes a couple times. The heating season is too short go get an ROI on the high efficiency furnaces. I would think that PVC flue couldn't be used and B vent would be needed due to the high temperature of the flue gas. I would think PVC would melt but again, I'm not an expert on 93% furnaces.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    72
    Just had the 80% unit sent back to the supply house.
    They MUST have a 90% (2 vent furnace) in this case.
    I have not seen a 90% here in the mid-south until this instance, I have spent all of my time on apartment complexes and hotels and communications storage facilities.
    It would be impossible (financially) to run B-Vent vertical through the roof from the basement,
    So 90% is the only option because you can run horizontal PVC vent pipe.

    Price difference was not bad between an 80% and 90%, I was worried the cost of the 90% was going to be much more and or delivery time would be too long.

    Learned something here, so thats all that counts.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    burlington county n.j.
    Posts
    9,741
    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    The supply houses around here tell me that 80% heating units are NLA. "illegal to install now" was stated as their reason why.

    Not true?

    PHM
    -------
    who is telling you that??

    we just installed an 80% yesterday HO didn't want to go for the 90+

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    1,675
    Regional Standards Update
    As of May 1st, 2013, an emergency Motion to Stay was granted by a U.S. Court of Appeals in the ongoing Regional
    Standards lawsuit. This motion legally forbids the Department of Energy (DOE) from enforcing the furnace standard in the Northern Region, which was to take effect May 1st, 2013, while legal efforts continue.

    Previously, DOE had stated they would not enforce the standard on the effective date (May 1) via a policy statement, leaving open the slim possibility that DOE could change their minds and begin enforcing the standard. This Motion to Stay removes all doubt and should provide a greater level of certainty for distributors
    as they continue to make decisions regarding their inventory. Additionally, the Motion states that if the Court were to decide that the standard should be upheld, there would be a six month delay before DOE
    could begin enforcing the standard.

    Read the Court’s decision online at: hardinet.org/sites/hardi/files/Advocacy/ DOE Stay5113.pdf

    HARDI will continue to update membership as
    developments occur.
    Submitted by Vanessa Spates
    May 1, 2013
    Hardi Advocacy
    hardinet.org/advocacy

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