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  1. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    The USA is overwhelmingly christian.
    Do you know why the USA is set up as a republic instead of a democracy? It's so that the majority can not overwhelm the minority do to mob thinking.

  2. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    Do you know why the USA is set up as a republic instead of a democracy? It's so that the majority can not overwhelm the minority do to mob thinking.
    Neither was it established so that a freak minority rules. The standards and laws of our nation should reflect the overwhelming majority of opinion.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

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  3. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    Neither was it established so that a freak minority rules. The standards and laws of our nation should reflect the overwhelming majority of opinion.
    I find this statement quite ironic as IT IS MAJORITY OPINION DRIVING THIS EFFORT.

    You can't seriously be THAT out of touch with things?

    Sorry to further clue you in; many Christians are on board. In fact, it would never have come this far without them.

    I predict that the next logical fallacy we see here is "no true Scotsman". Any takers?

    Quite predictable. Ho hum predictable.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  4. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    The most telling part of GA's retort to my post was the words "high minded intellectualism"

    In other words: Stop THINKING and start BELIEVING.
    The very crux of all religion. The stunner is that they actually have the chutzpah to call a lack of logic, facts and common sense a "search for truth". Truly nothing more amusing than that in the realm in which we live! *chuckle*

    But then, of course, we speak of the extremist fringe here. Again, without Christian support we are not even having this conversation.
    "Social networking" is an oxymoron.

  5. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by exreo View Post
    barbar would it be alright with you if we offered every homosexual in America marital status in NZ? Could they all go there? Is the north island or the south island the best?
    I second the motion... can we have a binding vote...
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  6. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    It is proselytizing.

    "Eternity" is a religious concept. By pushing for a purely religious answer, you are pushing a religion.

    As I've stated repeatedly, marriage is a legal contract which two people enter into. It has nothing to do with sex, gender or religion.

    I can be married with exactly NO input, approval or involvement by any church.
    One person says something is "_________" (enter defining word)
    Another person says the same something "_________" is not the same defining word...

    Which one is correct and which one is not??? Ahhh, that is the question.

    I know... lets go to an open-source internet dictionary, where anyone can post anything (without any reference to reality)... and quote it as being truth.
    Not good enough one says???
    Would the best debater be the one correct (maybe a master debater)?
    Would the one with the most political clout behind them (read that the most $$$ supporting--AND PROFITING FROM) the answer?
    Would the most popular movie star, due to the 'wow factor' be the one to decide correctness?
    Oh, I have an idea... lets create this idea called political correctness... make it a snub intellectual thing a person can feel proud about being 'part of the movement'... YEAH, that is the way to figure out what is right and wrong.

    A day or so back GA posted he was looking for a different truth... well here is a clue:
    The methods of justifying something noted above produce a so called truth that in GA's opinion is nothing more that political spin.

    GA would be ashamed of himself if the smartest thing he could muster to prove his point was one of the things above... If REAL truth was the goal... GA would deserve to be laughed off the internet for using one or more of the items above as proof.

    See this thread:

    http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....1#post16144211

    And tell me the difference between the fine statesman noted in the OP... and the polecats today. Please explain how they determined truth vs truth. This would be a debate worthy of time at ARP!!!!!
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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  7. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Little bit of factual backup for what is being said here...

    http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

    Approximately 2.1 Billion Christians world-wide

    http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

    Approximately 7.1 Billion People world-wide

    2.1/7.1*100= 29.5%

    So, LESS than a third of people, world wide are Christians. A definite and clear minority.
    Yet the documentable gay/lezzy community is well less than 10%... yet they get special treatment and attention the Christians, which are a LARGER MINORITY, do not get...

    And we call that democracy...

    No, that is corrupt politics at its finest...

    Now for a question: Do folks REALLY want to truth their security and future to that system? REALLY?
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

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  8. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraziFuzzy View Post
    The problem with this debate is that it is not a proper debate. The goal of a debate is to hash out opinions/theories, and through discussion come to a conclusion. When you have people spouting out about some God book, and holding those words as the only truth possible, there can be no drawn conclusion. When those same self-righteous people think that their special book is the only truth for the entire human race, when only a third or so of the humans in existence admit to giving a crap about the thing (and many of those are probably only saying so due to social pressure, not because they really believe it), it really eliminates any weight to that side of the argument. In the end, social health can only come when people are left to live their own lives, in a way that they choose, and harms no others. The argument that 'deviant behavior' brought down the romans is completely false, and based on religious rhetoric. What brought down the Romans was a corrupt government out of control and power hungry - the stupid masses giving too much power to the politicized few - who used that power to their own gain, at the expense of the masses. The fact that some of the masses and pol's alike were doinking in each other's butts is irrelevant, and coincident.

    To the topic of marriage - civil union - whatever: I could care less who marries who. I am happily married - yet we have very little sex. I also had lots of happy sex before I was married. The point is, marriage and sex are not mutually required, or even really all that related. Sex is a personal act between consenting adults. Marriage (the act of mutual support and sharing of life's trials and gifts) is also a personal act between consenting adults. The extent of government intervention in either should be near zero. For sex, I don't think there should be any intervention, as frankly, there is no social reason to. For marriage, the need for governmental intervention only goes so far as to provide a mechanism to publicly register the formation, alteration, and dissolution of said arrangements, for purposes of legal and financial dealings - they should not be dictating the terms of said arrangements.

    And there should, for certain, be no governmental programs/rules/regulations that treat any citizen differently than any other citizen, for ANY reason, including their involvement in a personal marriage arrangement.
    While, as a God fearing Christian, I disagree with your premises on faith...

    You and I can agree on the part in bold above.

    What I find interesting at ARP is... most of the affirmed liberals have no intention to find solutions or conclusions.... they are here strictly for the sport of putting down someone. And most of them are not even in the HVACR trades.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

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  9. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    The USA is overwhelmingly christian.
    Totally agree...

    BTW: This is one of the most hated truths in the current political climate. Ever wonder why there are soooo many lies about the faith?

    The polecats know if they can destroy Christianity... they can gain a HUGE amount of power and $$$.

    Remember... they do NOT want to take care of us... they are in it ONLY for the power and $$$.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

  10. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    I find this statement quite ironic as IT IS MAJORITY OPINION DRIVING THIS EFFORT.

    You can't seriously be THAT out of touch with things?

    Sorry to further clue you in; many Christians are on board. In fact, it would never have come this far without them.

    I predict that the next logical fallacy we see here is "no true Scotsman". Any takers?

    Quite predictable. Ho hum predictable.
    If you are saying God fearing Christians are on board as supporting gay rights... I will differ with you.

    The ones who make public speeches are the few who are playing the power politics... the LARGE majority of folks I talk to (remember, I live in the Bible Belt South), literally abhor this idiocy.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

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  11. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrogdog View Post
    The very crux of all religion. The stunner is that they actually have the chutzpah to call a lack of logic, facts and common sense a "search for truth". Truly nothing more amusing than that in the realm in which we live! *chuckle*

    But then, of course, we speak of the extremist fringe here. Again, without Christian support we are not even having this conversation.
    Just for fun.... Scrog... are you related to Geer???

    You are sounding more and more like that poster. Not much real content... rather a lot of spin posted for sport, not really much else.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

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  12. #181
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    The issue of LGBT (funny how it used to be just about "gays"--who/what's next? Something from the Island of Dr. Moreau?) is not about their "right" to live their lifestyle. Yes, there were/ are laws on the books in most states prohibiting most of their lifestyle choices. Yes, in many countries they would be jailed or executed. But we're talking about the US or what's left of it. Here, to an extent, at least for the time being, we're free to do a lot of things of a sexual nature that up until just recently were considered taboo, illegal, perverted, condemned, outlawed, sick, etc. Now, those same acts are considered "norm", praiseworthy, for everyone, forced upon everyone, held over everyone under penalty of severe ostracization, used to extort people against their own beliefs, used for control, and just about anything else they can think of. In the midst of this, anyone who follows the tradition of being against such behavior is now considered the radical or hateful. Hmm. We went thousands of years status quo, then in a few short years, something changed. What was it? Progressivism. So, why would Progressivism, which has its basis in those political systems most associated with the persecution of gays, lesbians, transvestites and transgendered people, suddenly seem to support and embrace them? Control. They don't give a hoot about these people. Historically, these groups have been among the first on the chopping block when Leftist radicals like Progressives take over. They will use them to consolidate their power then when their utility has faded, they will simply be disposed of. It's history-don't blame me.

    Now, you have conservatives, who state that while we don't condone their lifestyle, we recognize their right to exist and conduct themselves in private. Just keep it out of our schools. As for "marriage", Christians, who founded this country, don't recognize a union, between other than a man and other than a woman. So, just because we don't approve of the LGBT lifestyle, you cannot say we "hate" them. We just don't approve of affording them legal benefits hereto afforded only to a legal union between a man and a woman. It also opens the door for other alternative relationships such as bestiality, necrophilia, pedophilia, etc. Where does it stop? So, to all you pro gay posters busting on conservatives as haters, let me just point out that it is YOU who are the haters. You hate US! You try to destroy our values, our lifestyle, our traditions, our morals and our religion then have the audacity to accuse us of hating you. Get a grip. Now, I know some of you really don't like or approve of the LGBT lifestyle but overly support it out of some need to make up for a sense of guilt about them. You seek acceptance. You seek approval. You think that anyone against gay marriage is on the outside and you definitely need to be on the inside so you fall into lock step. When a debate heats up, you go overboard in an effort to prove just how "hip" you are and in tune with modern culture. After all, you couldn't stand being labeled a bigot against gays. Being a bigot against Christians is fine with you but not gays. You are selective in your bigotry.

  13. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    The USA is overwhelmingly christian.
    So you're saying your eternity/god-book arguments are only applicable to the USA?

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