SEER rating question

[Brad N]

I just got sold a Rheem unit, and the sales person said that it was a 15.1 SEER (details on contract are model 14AJM36A01 air conditioner and RCFC-HM3617AC evaporator coil). The installers arrived today and the side of the unit says 14.5 SEER. The installer (and the sales guy when I called him) both said that the matching coil makes it 15.1 SEER. Is this correct or am I being told mis-information. I'm pretty hesitant because I've been told some bad information by others in the past, so I'm hoping I'm just being paranoid here. Thanks VERY much in advance for any answers.

[Shophound]

Coil and condenser matchups will determine SEER level for that combination. While the condenser itself may have 14.5 stamped on it, with the right coil it can be rated higher. The information about your combination should be available on the Airconditioning and Refrigeration (ARI) website.

If your indoor air handler or furnace was not replaced, your SEER level will be at the evaporator/condenser combination. Now, as for if your system actually performs at its rated SEER level, nobody yet has told me how a tech can field measure that. I'm more interested in EER (energy efficiency ratio) because when weather is severe, this is what counts.

[Brad N]

Thanks. And I mistyped the evaporator coil model, by the way. It is RCFL-HM3617AC (not RCFC). The indoor furnace is not being replaced.

[Mr Bill]

Thanks. And I mistyped the evaporator coil model, by the way. It is RCFL-HM3617AC (not RCFC). The indoor furnace is not being replaced.

It's a 14.5 seer system you will end up with, you have to have the RGPT-05EBMKR 80% X-13 furnace to have a true 15 seer. The coil and condenser are good to go, but you have to change the furnace, and there is no 15.1 that I know of.

[Mr Bill]

Thanks. And I mistyped the evaporator coil model, by the way. It is RCFL-HM3617AC (not RCFC). The indoor furnace is not being replaced.

I would like to know how they can garantee you any seer rating without changing the furnace, please ask them this and get back.

[Brad N]

I would like to know how they can garantee you any seer rating without changing the furnace, please ask them this and get back.

As a complete novice, I'm just trying to do some research before I start acting like they are trying to pull the wool over my eyes. I found this: http://www.rheem.com/documents/14ajm...ication-sheets
Although not easy to find my exact combination, this chart shows the SEER ratings for combining the Rheem 14AJM36A01 around 36,000 Btuh with various Rheem coils and has a number of them starting with RCFL-H*3617 with a SEER rating of 15.1. Is it possible they are just referencing that chart and so I shouldn't worry?

By the way, the prompt response I got on here is fantastic. Thank you!

[Brad N]

Ugh, as an update, I did e-mail the sales guy and asked him for the AHRI # and he said he would get it to me. But in the meantime, I contacted AHRI and gave them my unit and coil info, and they e-mailed me back with an AHRI # that says 14.5 SEER. Plus, the sales guy had made a big deal about how this system only runs on high for a few seconds and then runs on low saving a bunch of energy, but from the Rheem website, it appears that would be the case in a 2-level system, while the one just installed is a single (or "split") system.

[Mr Bill]

Plus, the sales guy had made a big deal about how this system only runs on high for a few seconds and then runs on low saving a bunch of energy.

Please ask him how he is able to make this happen with the equipment he is selling you, I am real interested.



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[Brad N]

Please ask him how he is able to make this happen with the equipment he is selling you, I am real interested.



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I will (even though you are being sarcastic :-p). I actually sent him an e-mail about it yesterday and he has not responded. :-( The good news is that my air conditioning is running well, and I have no doubt that I at least needed the new coil, which was literally 70% of the total price ($2500 for the coil installed or $3600 for the coil + unit installed). And it is a pretty large, national company that did the sales and installation, so I am not as worried that they will all of a sudden be out of business or something. But, I don't like the idea that I was told two very specific things about this sale that do not appear to be true.

After my experience with my last HVAC company--where they sold me an R22 for $2500 only two years ago (which was on its way out given the new EPA requirements) when my previous unit died and also didn't mention anything about my old coil, so they could charge me an arm and a leg for freon, I am really getting down on the whole industry.

[Mr Bill]

I am really getting down on the whole industry.

Brad, I am glad you are back up and running, about getting down on the whole industry, when you have leaders of our nation setting the tone, it's just not our industry, it's the way of our future. If it's any consolation, there are still a few good contractors out there, just not the 9 out of 10 good, there was 20 or 30 years ago, my guess it's a 1 out of 10 ratio now.

[Brad N]

Brad, I am glad you are back up and running, about getting down on the whole industry, when you have leaders of our nation setting the tone, it's just not our industry, it's the way of our future. If it's any consolation, there are still a few good contractors out there, just not the 9 out of 10 good, there was 20 or 30 years ago, my guess it's a 1 out of 10 ratio now.

I spoke with the head sales and head install guy at the company--they were actually prompt in getting back to me and were extremely apologetic, so at least the company has that going for them. They agreed with what you were saying, that he couldn't have guaranteed me much of anything with my furnace, and they agreed with me that there was definitely a difference with what I was told I was getting and what I got.

They offered me three options:
1) They'd replace the 14.5 SEER single-stage unit with a 16 SEER two-stage unit since that would satisfy the two things the sales guy told me (although they said that with my old furnace, the two-stage wouldn't actually add any efficiency.
2) They'd just give me back $400 to make up the difference between the unit I was promised and what I was sold.
3) They would do option #1 of replacing the unit with the Rheem 16 SEER two-stage, but would also replace the furnace, so that I'd have an entirely new system, with a new thermostat, and that they'd do it all at their cost, which he said would cost me an extra $2800 for everything installed. He's e-mailing me a proposal so that I have it all in writing.

Any thoughts? I sort of lean towards option #3, especially if it gets me extra warranty or service and if I can have him come down a bit on the price. But, obviously, I don't want to pay more money if I'm just getting burned further.

[Brad N]

Coil and condenser matchups will determine SEER level for that combination. While the condenser itself may have 14.5 stamped on it, with the right coil it can be rated higher. The information about your combination should be available on the Airconditioning and Refrigeration (ARI) website.

If your indoor air handler or furnace was not replaced, your SEER level will be at the evaporator/condenser combination. Now, as for if your system actually performs at its rated SEER level, nobody yet has told me how a tech can field measure that. I'm more interested in EER (energy efficiency ratio) because when weather is severe, this is what counts.

By the way, Shophound, thanks for the ARI info. That ended up being very helpful.

[Mr Bill]

Coil and condenser matchups will determine SEER level for that combination. While the condenser itself may have 14.5 stamped on it, with the right coil it can be rated higher.

This might be the first time we disagreed. You have to use the furnace, coil, and condenser, all together to get the ARI rated 14.5 seer. Now you can use the aspen coil with the 14.5 Ruud condenser and standard 80% furnace that will get you to 15 seer, problem is with the aspen coil, you will not qualify for the 5 year condenser replacement, you have to use the Ruud coil, to qualify for that option. Go figure, aspen coil gets you to 15 seer, Ruud coil gets you to 14.5 seer. If you used the Ruud coil, Ruud 14.5 condenser and furnace with the X-13 motor that combo will get you to 15 seer.



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[Mr Bill]

that they'd do it all at their cost, which he said would cost me an extra $$$$$ for everything installed.

Well, if they would have sold you the right combo in the beginning, you would not be spending any extra money. Now they sold you a furnace, over their mistake, yes the 16seer two stage is a nice setup, but it's the principle of the whole thing that gets under my skin.



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[Mr Bill]

They offered me three options:
1) They'd replace the 14.5 SEER single-stage unit with a 16 SEER two-stage unit since that would satisfy the two things the sales guy told me (although they said that with my old furnace, the two-stage wouldn't actually add any efficiency.

Can't even believe they would have even offered this option, what were they going to run it on high all the time? What happened is they screwed up, and they are trying their best to work something out with you, rather the combination works correctly or not. The only choice they have offered that will work is the 2 stage deal.



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[Brad N]

Can't even believe they would have even offered this option, what were they going to run it on high all the time? What happened is they screwed up, and they are trying their best to work something out with you, rather the combination works correctly or not. The only choice they have offered that will work is the 2 stage deal.



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Thanks again for all the advice. It sounds like I really should have a new furnace and that as long as the price is right, I should have them replace the furnace (as well as switch out the 14.5 SEER Rheem single-stage unit they put in for the Rheem 16 SEER two-stage unit). I don't have any real way of knowing if the 2800 they are asking for the new furnace (and thermostat) (on top of the money I already spent) is a good deal. The guy makes it sound like he is giving me an amazing price to make up for all the other stuff, but I would expect him to say that.

[BaldLoonie]

The RARL is a superb machine BUT as has been said, not appropriate for your old blower. The SEER with a RCFL and old blower is 13.00 so worse than the 14AJM. If they'll give you a deal on a VS furnace and the RARL, you have a humdinger of a system. If not, keep the 14AJM.

[Brad N]

The RARL is a superb machine BUT as has been said, not appropriate for your old blower. The SEER with a RCFL and old blower is 13.00 so worse than the 14AJM. If they'll give you a deal on a VS furnace and the RARL, you have a humdinger of a system. If not, keep the 14AJM.

While I have not gotten the exact specs from the company, I was under the assumption that the two-stage Rheem would still be the value series two-stage, so a 16AJL system as opposed to a RARL, which is the Prestige Series and (my guess is) a huge upgrade.

I think what I would be getting is a VS (is that variable stage?) and a 16AJL, which is supposedly a 16 SEER. LOL, while I still know nothing, it is amazing how a few days of this has gotten me from where I was, which is knowing less than nothing--probably even more dangerous. :-p

[slipknot]

Take #3. You wont be sorry.

[Mr Bill]

(details on contract are model 14AJM36A01 air conditioner and RCFC-HM3617AC evaporator coil).

All he would have had to do is, drop in a RGPT-05EBMKR 80% X-13 Furnace and you would have been at 15 seer, like you originally wanted. He took you the long way around the barn, to up-sale you. I personally don't like the tactic, but it's your $$$$$. His salesman really needs to study his price book for future sales, all the seer combinations are right there in black and white. Or better yet, left it at 14.5 seer and just knocked off a couple bucks for the mistake.