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  1. #53
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    Originally Posted by netsalt
    In the beginning the establishment clause spoke to Congress and the Federal Gov directly but with the ratification of 14th amendment the states were brought in.

    " No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."


    Again....the intent of the 14th was toward former slaves and legal immigrants.

    One of the protected liberties states must abide by is the establishment clause which protects the citizen from persecution by religious zealots of any stripe.




    This is simply an opinion, and an incorrect one at that. Most likely, propaganda that you've heard. Think about it...our right to free speech makes this opinion pretty much unworkable.



    The Supreme court has expressed a different opinion than you, their rulings have become the basis in how we apply these principles. Propaganda? I think not. Public record.
    Last edited by netsalt; 06-27-2013 at 04:13 PM. Reason: cut and paste quote

  2. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by k-fridge View Post
    You're right, it has. Our government is under less influence from religion than ever.
    In religious matter's its sort of a wash. Over the last 100 years, the ideals of the government have followed the ideals of the population as a whole (to some extent). As the religious percentage of the population has dwindled, so has it's power in the government - however, there had been many blatant assaults on the establishment clause in the 50's alone. The changing of the motto and of the pledge are both direct assaults on the establishment clause, and the SCOTUS at the time did nothing to prevent them. However, I was referring to the power of the constitution as a whole. The constitution is only as strong as the people are willing to defend it - and over the last 100 years, the american people have preferred to ignore the constitution, to get immediate gratification from their preferred lawmakers - and the SCOTUS, being politicized, and that political pressure being greater the the level of honor the justices of the last century have held, have started making decisions to the will of the people, instead of the words of the constitution. The constitution was written in a way, and the government founded in a way, so that the lawmaking process could be somewhat insulated from the stupidity of the masses (that is why we are a republic, and not a democracy) - but when all 3 branches of government are all trying to just please those stupid masses, they make stupid decisions. When that has happened steadily from 1913 until today, it is a death by 1000 cuts, and the constitution, today, would be worth more turned to pulp and made into toilet paper.

  3. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraziFuzzy View Post
    In religious matter's its sort of a wash. Over the last 100 years, the ideals of the government have followed the ideals of the population as a whole (to some extent). As the religious percentage of the population has dwindled, so has it's power in the government - however, there had been many blatant assaults on the establishment clause in the 50's alone. The changing of the motto and of the pledge are both direct assaults on the establishment clause, and the SCOTUS at the time did nothing to prevent them. However, I was referring to the power of the constitution as a whole. The constitution is only as strong as the people are willing to defend it - and over the last 100 years, the american people have preferred to ignore the constitution, to get immediate gratification from their preferred lawmakers - and the SCOTUS, being politicized, and that political pressure being greater the the level of honor the justices of the last century have held, have started making decisions to the will of the people, instead of the words of the constitution. The constitution was written in a way, and the government founded in a way, so that the lawmaking process could be somewhat insulated from the stupidity of the masses (that is why we are a republic, and not a democracy) - but when all 3 branches of government are all trying to just please those stupid masses, they make stupid decisions. When that has happened steadily from 1913 until today, it is a death by 1000 cuts, and the constitution, today, would be worth more turned to pulp and made into toilet paper.

    Good point.
    Democracy is 3 wolves and 2 sheep deciding what's for dinner.

    Or in my neck of the woods.
    Democracy is 3 Redfish and 2 Shrimps deciding what's for dinner
    We shall never prevent the abuse of power if we are not
    prepared to limit power in a way which occasionally may
    prevent its use for desirable purposes.


    F.A. Hayek

  4. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraziFuzzy View Post
    In religious matter's its sort of a wash. Over the last 100 years, the ideals of the government have followed the ideals of the population as a whole (to some extent). As the religious percentage of the population has dwindled, so has it's power in the government - however, there had been many blatant assaults on the establishment clause in the 50's alone. The changing of the motto and of the pledge are both direct assaults on the establishment clause, and the SCOTUS at the time did nothing to prevent them. However, I was referring to the power of the constitution as a whole. The constitution is only as strong as the people are willing to defend it - and over the last 100 years, the american people have preferred to ignore the constitution, to get immediate gratification from their preferred lawmakers - and the SCOTUS, being politicized, and that political pressure being greater the the level of honor the justices of the last century have held, have started making decisions to the will of the people, instead of the words of the constitution. The constitution was written in a way, and the government founded in a way, so that the lawmaking process could be somewhat insulated from the stupidity of the masses (that is why we are a republic, and not a democracy) - but when all 3 branches of government are all trying to just please those stupid masses, they make stupid decisions. When that has happened steadily from 1913 until today, it is a death by 1000 cuts, and the constitution, today, would be worth more turned to pulp and made into toilet paper.
    I don't disagree about he government ignoring the constitution.

    My point was that the church is not going to take over the government; simply not going to happen. We have much bigger issues to worry about.

  5. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by k-fridge View Post
    I don't disagree about he government ignoring the constitution.

    My point was that the church is not going to take over the government; simply not going to happen. We have much bigger issues to worry about.
    Yeah I remember when Pat Robertson ran and lost in the Republican primaries back several races ago.

    Shame he lost could have saved us so to speak from the mess were in now. Oh well he gave it a shot anyhow. Thank you, thank you very much.

  6. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraziFuzzy View Post
    In religious matter's its sort of a wash. Over the last 100 years, the ideals of the government have followed the ideals of the population as a whole (to some extent). As the religious percentage of the population has dwindled, so has it's power in the government - however, there had been many blatant assaults on the establishment clause in the 50's alone. The changing of the motto and of the pledge are both direct assaults on the establishment clause, and the SCOTUS at the time did nothing to prevent them. However, I was referring to the power of the constitution as a whole. The constitution is only as strong as the people are willing to defend it - and over the last 100 years, the american people have preferred to ignore the constitution, to get immediate gratification from their preferred lawmakers - and the SCOTUS, being politicized, and that political pressure being greater the the level of honor the justices of the last century have held, have started making decisions to the will of the people, instead of the words of the constitution. The constitution was written in a way, and the government founded in a way, so that the lawmaking process could be somewhat insulated from the stupidity of the masses (that is why we are a republic, and not a democracy) - but when all 3 branches of government are all trying to just please those stupid masses, they make stupid decisions. When that has happened steadily from 1913 until today, it is a death by 1000 cuts, and the constitution, today, would be worth more turned to pulp and made into toilet paper.
    Fuzzy, I agree with you. Sad but true.

  7. #59
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    Jan 2001
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    6,659
    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Yeah I remember when Pat Robertson ran and lost in the Republican primaries back several races ago.

    Shame he lost could have saved us so to speak from the mess were in now. Oh well he gave it a shot anyhow. Thank you, thank you very much.

    Pats a wolf in sheeps clothing Glenn.... If I was president....one of my first little jobs for seal team six would be his elimination......

    He wouldnt save us from anything..... I dont think he would last a day as president before those in government, the supreme court....congress....both major parties would realize that they had made a grave mistake in letting this loser take office.....and he would probably be assasinated by several dozens of people..... dozens.... at the same time....

    all climbing over each other to make sure the deed was done.

    Just my 2 cents...... but believe me Glenn..... I am correct in my assumption that he is indeed a non christian wolf in sheeps clothing.......

    DO NOT send him money....

    DO NOT offer any support of him in person or on the net.
    As Seen On You Tube (usually under someone elses name)

  8. #60
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    Your full of it corny. Your describing what some speculated would happen when the current alien took office.

    By the way who did you vote for in the past two elections for POTUS? I got a good idea. Be back up in East Tennessee late Jul and mid August visiting some good salt of the earth folks. Liberals wouldn't be welcomed though. Thank you very much

  9. #61
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    Jan 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    Pats a wolf in sheeps clothing Glenn.... If I was president....one of my first little jobs for seal team six would be his elimination......

    He wouldnt save us from anything..... I dont think he would last a day as president before those in government, the supreme court....congress....both major parties would realize that they had made a grave mistake in letting this loser take office.....and he would probably be assasinated by several dozens of people..... dozens.... at the same time....

    all climbing over each other to make sure the deed was done.

    Just my 2 cents...... but believe me Glenn..... I am correct in my assumption that he is indeed a non christian wolf in sheeps clothing.......

    DO NOT send him money....

    DO NOT offer any support of him in person or on the net.
    Are you really advocating the assassination of an American citizen?

    As for Robertson....I think he probably is Christian. I also think he's a few fries short of a Happy Meal.

  10. #62
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    Oct 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolwhip View Post
    Not a good thing being at a state fair with your children and seeing two dudes holding hands and sucking face.
    Its hard to explain to children why anyone, woman/man, man/man, woman/woman, display fondling/sexuality in public.

    Some people just don't have any class.

    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  11. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfshadow View Post
    ..... Outside of the the religious aspect I truly do not understand why people care how other peoples relationships function.

    Unless someone is forcing you to marry them, why do so many of you oppose this. They are not harming you or yours so why do y'all care?
    You took the words right out of my mouth.

    I don't care who wants to be with who, and how many wifes someone wants, as long as he/she can afford it and is not a burden on society.

    I care about Liberty and Freedom, which means I should care about others liberty/freedom, for the minute I'm willing to restrict theirs, they will try to restrict mine.

    Its odd that we have a country founded on Liberty and Freedom, but so few understand such a simple notion.

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."


    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  12. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaard View Post
    Because my God says its an abomination.
    So live by your God's principle. But that does not give you the right to impose it on me.

    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  13. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Well a healthy nation depends on well adjusted married couples with children. This should be encouraged and promoted more not put down by gay marriages and pride parades being allowed down our city streets showing perverted behavior and dress. Thank you very much
    Well adjusted marriage was in trouble long before this gay thing came in to the national discussion.

    Ask me how I know...... been married three times.

    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

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