Fridge, I have complained numerous times about the use of the term "tea bagger" not because the Leftists choose a nickname for conservatives opposed to our present government but because "tea bagging" is a term used to describe a sexual act utilizing male genitalia, which I find disgusting. I was told to get over it because it was a term already in common use.
Are the PC police to dictate what monikers we can apply to each other (as long as they are not profane)? What would be acceptable? Leftist? Fascist? Statist? A little research will show these terms are not simply terms of derision but correctly applied to the current mindset of about half of our country and leaders. In other words, its stating facts. If those terms carry some degree of discomfort for some them maybe they should look at just what those terms mean or embrace and reconsider their own beliefs because if socialism or communism or fascism make you uncomfortable, then perhaps you need to do a little soul searching.
To outlaw those terms would, to me, be a First Amendment violation of sorts. I don't have a problem with these people calling me a "republican" or "conservative" or "tea partier" or "libertarian" or "constitutionalist" or "patriot".
Keep the fire inside the fireplace.
Please show me where I have called one of our posters here a commie or a socialist in the recent past. I have not to my knowledge done this. Now if you want to go after me when I haven't done this then please publically go after those who have violated all the rules here, including two very recent posts by a very popular poster here who posted attacks on me just a few days ago because of my defense of Zimmerman. Here is just one example.
Originally Posted by k-fridge
"Basically, you are making up stories in order to justify your belief that a young Black man should be able to be gunned down by a person of mixed race as long as part of that race is White."
I have never posted anything like this and what he was referring to was my comment that Martin was stupid to attack Zimmerman. Now another even more recent attack on me had no basis what so ever IMHO and I did not even reply but let it go. I won’t even mention that one.
So if we are going just go after me because of my conservative beliefs and that I was brought up in an era far different from the morals and beliefs of the day just say so. I surely don’t agree with what is happening but I guess I’m expected to be happy and let our country go down the tubes without a complaint. I don’t have a clue why I am the one getting grilled here. There are several others IMHO deserving that honor. What else can I say.
"I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
"I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
Glenn... you are grilling yourself. Step back and take a breath.
We rarely outlaw terms. And we have been extremely "hands off" in what is posted here. But some people push the limits, and then we must come in to push back. We're not trying to be politically correct; but we do have a responsibility to maintain acceptable standards of decency here.
We need to be careful about racial language here. Sometimes, it is on topic (IE: Zimmerman case) and it is perfectly acceptable to discuss it so long as we do it in a civil and appropriate manner. But when the slurs start flying, it is not OK at that point. I will add..the charges of racism when there is none is also wrong.
The name calling is completely ridiculous here! As one poster mentioned above; it's quite grade school like. Is that the best we can do? Most of us are supposed to be professionals in our industry and we are on display to the world here. Is this what you want people to think of us? And yes, we should be sensitive to the advertisers here. It can be problematic for them to be associated with a site that has inappropriate content.
In the last two weeks; one has been locked out of ARP and some points have been given for infractions. Why? Because some have trampled all over the rules. I expect more to come.
It's not hard to avoid this happening to you. Just follow the simple rules and act like an adult. Discuss what you want, take what position you want. We truckly don't care what you believe or who's club you belong to. Just follow the rules and all will be fine.
One last thought....We mods and committee members work for a living just like you do. And yes, in the HVAC industry. Also like many of you, we are slammed right now. So frankly, we don't have the time to deal with behavior that really is juvenile. Please consider that.
Ya know... I was wondering if this would come to a head this summer... Seems the flavor at ARP has gotten kinda negative and accusatory (and yeah, GA has been guilty as charged).
Bottom line is: Penton does not have to host ARP... the entire H-talk site could be politics free if they chose to do so. (Would be interesting to watch the transition... would be a rocky road).
I think if those who are regulars at ARP want to continue to have a sandbox to play in... we all need to learn to step OUT of the BOX before we p**... In other words; in GA's opinion we all need to be a bit more conscious of our own behavior.
With that... GA has some calls to run... you guys and gals have a good time today...
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Yep, Special K gave me 5 points for calling a racist a racist recently.
To put the world in order, we must first put the nation in order; to put the nation in order, we must put the family in order; to put the family in order, we must cultivate our personal life; and to cultivate our personal life, we must first set our hearts right.
That's a pretty good reply GA... Let me quote something here that I've recently said to the ARP Committee.
Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech
You ARP guys have heard this before, the ARPC was created to retain the ARP Forum. Some thought it to be a quirk and tried to sabotage the committee from day one of conception yet it and the ARP forum lives on. I see every post and read every thought mentioned by the ARPC while they do their respective jobs here. I have never seen so many come together to be so fair to everyone as this committee has in the past few years.
Unfortunately the Moderation of the site and the ARP are on different footing thus the ARPC.
The ARP forum is a catch all for those who wish to talk the talk and publicize their convictions. Not so in the rest of the site.
The issue is temper management and word expression.
There will always be grey areas when conforming to or moderating the site rules. There is no difference in the ARP.
As I see it, the main objective of the ARPC is to continue the calm and diminish the storm. Yet please understand that Penton only requires the typed language be civil and doesn't want to edit content that varies the point of conversation. Let'm Talk is a motto here and includes this forum. The ARPC does retain the right, as do I, to remove controversial threads/posts that could harm this site and damage the reputation of Penton Media.
I have no clue as to why the attitudes have cranked up in the ARP but I will guarantee one thing. The storm will calm, attitudes/insults toward others will change and the ARPC will continue to do it's job. They have my full support. If the committee feels a member can't control his actions or is a detriment to the longevity of the ARP Forum I will remove the privileges for that member to view said forum. I will do so without prejudice, segregation or personal preference.
Now, for the record. I'm not trying to be a badass here but I'm not a member anymore. I work for the membership, the entire membership. Be it a democracy or republic consisting of ions, neutrons and data it is still a home for many. Every member no matter how new or how many posts must rely on the structure to work. This takes a structured set of rules which contain grey areas. Committee members rule on grey areas but when you type hurtful/embarrassing/untrue names and insinuations/insults at another member you will get into hot water. There is nothing grey about that. Discussing your convictions and retaining the point of the thread is always the intent of a good post.
Thanks for listening.
It is much easier to throw a insult at a person directly or indirectly by associating them with a third party that you then insult. It takes more time and thought to give a reasoned argument against a topic or position. It takes stepping back from your emotions and thinking why is the other person thinking that (other than they are all [insert group here] nuts) and which parts of their position is valid and which is not. The problem is that everyone is not 100% wrong and there is always some validity to some of their words. This goes for all sides. But to admit that is hard when you want a certain outcome and have no room for compromise in your beliefs.
Been here a fair amount of time, seen how the place operates in the open and behind the scenes. I enjoy the differences of opinions and the diverse nature of the people that have gone through this forum and the one's that are still here. I do not expect everyone to put hours of thought into every post but I do want to read something that will make me think. Nothing bores me more than the same old rhetoric thrown out with not much thought behind it. Even more so when the banter turns ugly and it turns into a peeing match. Sure some have noticed my daily post count is not as high as it once was. (Not that some do not mind)
This forum is rather unique in that it allows discussion of subjects that most other forums have strict rules against. It says a lot of the owners to allow it to survive. But as owners they have to be conscious of the image portrayed by their site. After all, business is business and what occurs here can effect it. If you want to travel outside of limits set here it is easy enough to start your own blog, rant away. This place does allow you to voice your opinion on most any subject and in the direction you want to take it. The difference between what is acceptable and what is not may be just one of language, how you communicate those ideas. I have seen everyone here from time to time rise up to the occasion so I know it is possible. It is just when people get lazy that things take a turn for the worse.
At least that is how I see it.
Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain
The threats of being locked in a small hotel room at Comfortech with you and K after consumed a fine Mexcian dinner was a good motivator for us to be "fair".
Originally Posted by Dad
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what will never be. (Thomas Jefferson 1816)
I'm telling you...it's Chris Worthington you need to be worried about. The man has skillz!
Originally Posted by Gib's Son
Some times ARP should be viewed just like "wall of shame" just entertainment. THANKS ARPC.
In GOD We Trust
Although I am not an HVAC guy, I hope I might be able to make a point here. I've posted on different college football forums over the past 10 years. I've seen a pattern on every board and that pattern also applies here. And it is always in regards to this subject of racism and particularly any comments that are negative about a black man or the black community in general. American corporations and businesses have an absolute paranoia about this subject. They fear being labled a racist company or insensitive to minorities. So here is the pattern I've seen on all boards over the past 10 years. When a discussion of racism comes up, conservative points of view are always met with at least one charge of racism by a lefty. Sometimes they are even plants who have only made 1 post on the board. The moderators, fearing that some super 5-star black athelete will read the thread on racism (or at least get wind of it) will eventually lock out the poster that the charges of racism was directed against--even though 9 times out of 10 the charges of racism by the lefty are false. Then the lefty poster(s) will stop with their charges of racism and the thread will be deleted from the board. No more racism discussions. There will be no more talk of why black atheltes get into TCU with a 800 on their SAT and most other students are required to have at least an 1100. There will be no more talk about why black crime is 8.3 times higher than white crime as a percentage of respective populations.
Well, the advertisers on this board don't want any talk of racism either. They might get shaken down by Rev. JJ and his followers. The same rules usually always apply, but conservative points of view have not been erased and conservative posters have not been banned. This is unusual. I fully expected to get banned from this board even though I do not want to be banned.
And one last point, do the moderators/owners really need the advertisers on this board? How much does it cost to host this site and provide the bandwith? Is it more or less than $100/month? I don't think the web hosting service is giving you much bandwidth because it take quite a while for me to navigate around on this site. Maybe others experience a lot faster speeds than I do. Maybe my problem is in the LAN where I live at the apartments here. Is the purpose of this site for the owners to make money on advertising? I don't know the answer to that question.
Thanks for letting me exress my opinion. I will completely submit myself to the authority of the moderators on this board. I would only hope I can be given an opportunity to fix any violations. Thank you, thank you very much.
Last edited by exreo; 06-30-2013 at 02:33 AM.
'Special K' did not give you 5 points. There is an entire ARPC committee that votes on whether you are awarded points or not, and it is painfully gut-wrenching for all on the committee. K-fridge is a great leader and a very rare level-head on this forum.
Originally Posted by coolwhip
Special warnings are also kind advices. I have been awarded points myself, it is nothing personal, and I have had a few of my posts reported. It's just a system in place to keep the forum clean. It seems to be working well. ARP, with our wild discussion topics, we all are behaving more or less civilized. A smashing success in my opinion.
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