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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    wedged in freezer shelf
    Posts
    6,951
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat in CH View Post
    Hey Old School,

    I wont take anything away from what has already been said so far. But, if you want one for free I have one at the corner of my desk. I had shipped back from the USA for testing.
    It is brand new only been tested for a couple of hours.

    It works very well, but could use what I like to call, "additional field testing."
    Here are the specs.
    Attachment 397211

    It is also ASHRAE 173 certified down to 0.9g/yr. Certificate is still pending.
    That's a seriously small leak.

    Just for the forums sake, in my personal opinion you all should be looking for leak detectors that are ASHRAE 173 certified / rated. ASHRAE electronic leak test standards just came out this year.....
    Every previous standardized electronic leak detector test has always been to SAE standards. SAE used R-134a as a test gas.....
    That's mostly automotive not HVAC/R....
    I don't sell to the USA personally so I have no vested interest here... Just trying to help a brother out.

    I have nothing against SAE, but it is a different trade and different gas than what you guys work with.

    If you want it, send me a private e-mail with your contact info and I will get it to you.
    I do expect some fair and constructive field feedback though. If you hate it, not a problem, I just need to understand why is all. If you love it, same thing.....
    Nothings for free......
    134a is commonly found in refrigeration and is also found as a component in other refrigerants.
    “If You Can Dodge A Wrench You Can Dodge A Ball”

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    wedged in freezer shelf
    Posts
    6,951
    http://www.techstreet.com/products/preview/1846872

    Expat, Here is the ASHRAE 173-2012
    It says R-134a is the refrigerant to be used as the test gas unless otherwise noted.
    FYI Just about every R-22 alternative has a significant component of R-134a

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Peoria, IL
    Posts
    2,149
    send me a car to test please!

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    phoenix, arizona
    Posts
    1,133
    old school. I am 90% retire. Selling my stuff. I have H10-PM in good condition. Need new battery. my email address in profile.
    Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H.L. Hunt

    "In order that people may be happy in their work, these three things are needed: They must be fit for it. They must not do too much of it. And they must have a sense of success in it." John uskin

  5. #18
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    51
    Hello Iceman,

    You make a couple of good points.
    R-134A is predominantly in refrigeration. In HVAC it is mostly R-22 and R-410A which is what old-school said he will be looking for.

    Yes, ASHRAE does say R-134a BUT, the manufacturers can certify using whichever refrigerant they want to as you said, "unless otherwise noted." Unlike the previous SAE standards.
    Believe me, I have studied the testing methodology, and spend days testing equipment. IMHO ASHRAE is a much better test to illustrate how well leak detector will work. We still certified to SAE just because up to now, that is the standard.
    As you all already know, something working in a lab environment is very different than how it will perform in the field. Which is why I offered Old School one, + I do have an extra one on my desk.

    My point is, if you want to look for a specific refrigerant leak in my opinion it would be better to buy an electronic leak detector with a detection rating to that gas.
    I don't care which brand you use, I was just trying to say that there is a new testing standard that you all should be aware of and look for. Although, it will take time for the market to adapt...
    I have no doubt that in the near future all the electronic leak detectors that you will see in the parts houses will be sporting a ASHRAE rating / certificate for R-22, R-410A, R-1234yf, or even R-134a.

    From a manufacturing point of view, it is possible to make a very accurate and reliable leak detector that only looks for a single refrigerant. However, it is not marketable because service technicians work with multiple gasses and they are not going to buy a different leak detector for each gas.
    That being said, you have to round off the edges of the detection program a bit to allow a electronic leak detector to work sufficiently well with multiple refrigerants; which in effect will de-tune its sensitivity a bit.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    West Plains, Missouri, United States
    Posts
    85
    I like the Tiff ZX-1. Only electronic leak detector i trust. Been using it for years.

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    wedged in freezer shelf
    Posts
    6,951
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat in CH View Post
    Hello Iceman,

    You make a couple of good points.
    R-134A is predominantly in refrigeration. In HVAC it is mostly R-22 and R-410A which is what old-school said he will be looking for.

    Yes, ASHRAE does say R-134a BUT, the manufacturers can certify using whichever refrigerant they want to as you said, "unless otherwise noted." Unlike the previous SAE standards.
    Believe me, I have studied the testing methodology, and spend days testing equipment. IMHO ASHRAE is a much better test to illustrate how well leak detector will work. We still certified to SAE just because up to now, that is the standard.
    As you all already know, something working in a lab environment is very different than how it will perform in the field. Which is why I offered Old School one, + I do have an extra one on my desk.

    My point is, if you want to look for a specific refrigerant leak in my opinion it would be better to buy an electronic leak detector with a detection rating to that gas.
    I don't care which brand you use, I was just trying to say that there is a new testing standard that you all should be aware of and look for. Although, it will take time for the market to adapt...
    I have no doubt that in the near future all the electronic leak detectors that you will see in the parts houses will be sporting a ASHRAE rating / certificate for R-22, R-410A, R-1234yf, or even R-134a.

    From a manufacturing point of view, it is possible to make a very accurate and reliable leak detector that only looks for a single refrigerant. However, it is not marketable because service technicians work with multiple gasses and they are not going to buy a different leak detector for each gas.
    That being said, you have to round off the edges of the detection program a bit to allow a electronic leak detector to work sufficiently well with multiple refrigerants; which in effect will de-tune its sensitivity a bit.
    Do you have a link to the SAE Method?
    The ASHREA Method covers some things I was questioning about a Detector Video I saw showing its sensitivity so thanks for bringing it up.
    Also you probably meant something different by having only days testing but most of us here have spent years and thousands of dollars on electronic leak detectors since crossing over from halide detectors. I haven't had a H10 but it must be a solid detector to be so well liked as so many models have come and gone.
    I am stuck on a ZX-1 as being the best detector I've ever used and mine picks up small 410 leaks too but they stopped making it for some reason.
    “If You Can Dodge A Wrench You Can Dodge A Ball”

  8. #21
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    51
    The SAE info is on a pay per view site.
    I have the various SAE standards in a file, but I think I would surely violate some copyright law if I posted them here.

    Although, I have been known to accidentally attach the odd PDF file when sending private e-mail. From time to time.

    There are a few SAE standards that apply to electronic leak detectors.
    J-1627 is the oldest.
    J-2791 R-134a probably the most pertinent.
    J-2911 The standard of how to qualify for a J standard.
    J-2913 R-1234yf newest automotive standard
    J-2970 Trace Gas standard
    EN-14624 EU standard based on SAE
    ASHRAE is a standard that will show how small of a calibrated leak a particular electronic leak detector can consistently detect.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    11
    D-tek select, just make sure you keep it charged.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    napping on the couch
    Posts
    1,970
    I did a comparison test video between the SRL2 and H10G. I don't think I'm going to post it because I like Fieldpiece and the SRL2 is a much better detector than my D-tek.

    I had a very small leak. When i sprayed it with Big Blue it took 10 minutes to form a tiny foam ball about a millimeter diameter. The H10 picked it up on its large setting and the SRL2 didn't pick it up on its high sensitivity.

    There is a reason people say get an H10G. But, like I said, I really like the SLR2 and if someone wanted a portable and don't want the bulk and inconvenience of the lead acid battery of a H10PM, I recommend it.

    I'm going to use mine a few more times, but I am considering selling it for the H10PM.

    What I recommend is to get an H10 first. If you have some money later down the road and want the convenience of a small batter powered leak detector get s SLR2 or I've heard the ZX-1 is very good, too.
    In 1959, Cuba wanted "CHANGE" too.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by Painful Chafe View Post
    ...
    I had a very small leak. When i sprayed it with Big Blue it took 10 minutes to form a tiny foam ball about a millimeter diameter. The H10 picked it up on its large setting and the SRL2 didn't pick it up on its high sensitivity.
    ...
    Which ref? R22 or R410-A?

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    napping on the couch
    Posts
    1,970
    R22

    I'm going to do some more testing to make sure the what I saw yesterday is accurate. This is the main reason I won't post the video. Also, the H10 is hands down the best leak detector and I don't want to trash the SRL because it very well may be the best rechargeable handheld out there. It is certainly better than my D-tek. I think it would only be fair to compare the SRL to other rechargeable handhelds and then show how all the handhelds get their butts spanked by H10's. The SRL I used is new, the h10G is used from 2011 but looks like it was never used.


    I have heard the SRL works very well on R410, and will keep it if it out performs the H10.

    One side note on the H10 and R410. I called Bacharach the other day and asked them about H10 and R410. The tech I talked to said to turn the leak size on "SM" and turn the sensor heater adjustment up 1/8 of a turn. Make sure to turn it back down when done. It shortens the life of the sensor.
    In 1959, Cuba wanted "CHANGE" too.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Columbia, MD
    Posts
    4,222
    Is the tif h10 as good as the other h10?

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