Trane XL16i vs XR16
I need to replace my outside condensor unit and inside coils. 3 ton unit , xv90 furnace. I plan to keep the XV90 furnace section as it is still in great shape.
I have one shop pushing the XL16i . Another shop is recommending the XR16 . His reasoning is 1- the XR16 has a higher seer rating than the XL16i , and 2 - the cost would be less for similar performance.
I've never been that fired up about the 16i or 2 stage A/Cs in general. On low, many are upwards of 80% of high so not much difference. Some matches of the 16i aren't too good at humidity removal on low which many tout the 2 stage for. Also, the XV90 can't use dehumidify on demand if using the 16i. DOD is a nice feature with a deluxe control in a sticky climate. Personally I'd save the loot and get the XR16. If in a humid climate, get a nice control like a Vision Pro IAQ or Aprilaire 8910 and you'll be ahead on dehumidification. You'll probably hear the opposite from most replies though
And he is right, lotta matches are .25 to .5 SEER points higher with the XR16. Since you won't find either rated with the XV90, won't have exact proof of what it is getting for tax credit or rebate.
The XR16 is actually also 2-stage. Not sure if you meant to recommend the XR15 instead of the XL16i. I too would be happy with either provided it was sized properly and the right thermostat was used (VP IAQ would be my recommendation as well). I do like 2-stage systems in the right application and when sized and set up properly (key is proper installation) for maximum comfort. But properly sized single stage systems, especially with the right thermostat, will perform very well. Seems as thought the OP is considering 2-stage systems, so...
Originally Posted by BaldLoonie
The XR16 is very similar to the XL16i with the noticeable differences being the lack of the top that all XLi models have to prevent (most) leaves/debris from entering the outdoor unit, and a 12 year compressor warranty vs. 12 years... Both the XR16 and XL16i are nice units, with the XL16i of course having a couple of advantages. You will have to weight cost vs. advantage; however both units will perform well if sized and installed properly.
I had little experience with residential two stage systems until I installed one in my own house two months ago. In my case it's a Lennox XC16 with the Ultratech scroll compressor, and matching evap coil. I kept the six year old Rheem furnace, and installed an Evergreen ECM motor in it this past Friday.
Today is a humid, warm day, with outdoor dew points over 70 degrees, and dry bulb temps close to 95. The system is on 1st stage cooling and is maintaining 74 degrees dry bulb at 50% relative humidity. Comfort is fine. What I'm also monitoring is power consumption, and so far it's much less of an energy pig than my old system. Sized and set up correctly, two stage systems are a great way to go, IMO.
- Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
- Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
- HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.
A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.
I can't keep track of what Trane is up to. I thought the XR16 was what they used to call the XR15 since they were changing names. Maybe the 15 didn't change. Gees, looking at Trane's website, they have all kinds of new models. How can anyone keep track
Oh yes you are correct the changed that have been made are confusing at first and are a little clearer now. I am a Trane dealer so I will post what I belive to be correct with straight a/c systems paired with furnaces.
Originally Posted by BaldLoonie
XR15 is now the XR 16 with single stage compressor.
XR 16 is now XR17 with (2) stage scroll compressor same as the XL16i
XL16 is now the XL18 with (2) stage compressor with 12 year warranty.
Trane reasoning is simple they are trying to move into the 16-17 seer market with the XR 16 and XR17 deference is the compressor being single stage compaired to (2) stage.
There are still some XR16 older models that have (2) stage compressors in which they are phasing out. The key is takk with installer and get full model number and see if (2) stage or single stage unit?
My vote goes for the new XR17 formally the XR16 with (2) stage compressor. It had 10 year warranty on parts, coils and compressors at a better price for competing with Lennox and carrier models.
Also the there are still some older model XL16 with (2) stage compressors that will be phased out and rebadged as XL18.
It a number game. So it boils down to this Chosses. I am using the latest model numbers in this example.
XR17 (2) stage compressor= 10 years parts, coil and compressor warranty or
XL18 (2) stage compressor (the same as the XR17 but offers a diffrent top and fan motor with top to reduce nosie and offers 12 year compressor and 10 year parts and coil.
I have installed several (10) to be excate XR16 (older model #) or XR17 (newer model #) that were (2) stage compressor before the change and have had great luck with them along with customers praising them for better comfort, effeicenty and price point. My vote goes for this set up.
I have installed XL16 in the past with (2) stage compressors and also had good luck but have yet to sale the XL18 (new version).
Proper sizing is the key weather it be single stage or (2) stage! Just talk with your installer about your concerns and have him verfiy what you are getting for the $$$.
The XR16 comes in a single stage and a 2 stage. My unit I am considering is a single stage. Thats based on the model number ( 4TTR6036B1000A) and the fact that the box says single stage
Originally Posted by RyanHughes
Yes in the model # the B means single stage compaired to older models that have and A which = (2) stage. Ask them if they can price both ways.
Originally Posted by Bmusgrove
XR 16 (newer version model #) compaired to the
XR17 (newer version model #)
The cost is a little more but worth it IMO for the (2) stage.
Originally Posted by duckman06
As you area trane delaer let me expand on that question. The model is 4TTR6036B1000A (single stage). According to the dealer I talked to , based on the trane literature guide he has, this XR16 is a 18 seer, while the XL16i is only 16.25 seer. However the energy guide sticker on the XR16 says 15 SEER. What the heck???? Whats the True Seer?
Another consideration is the variable speed fan motor vs a single speed. The variable speed on my 12 year old XL 1400 dies during a thunderstorm. Looking at the cost of replacing that motor (quotes from $ to $). the less fancy mporo on the XR161 looks good...
Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 06-21-2013 at 05:14 AM.
Guess I was thinking right after all. To know what SEER, you have to know what coil the dealer is proposing and the furnace. Since you have an older furnace, no way to look up for sure. Closest thing you can do is use the same size 95% TUH furnace and you will be close. It would not be honest to use that number for a tax credit or rebate however.
But looking at the 4TTR6036B and matches with the XV95, they run between 14 and 15 SEER. There are NO matches with the XV95 that hit 16. The highest that unit will go is 16.50 with a GAM5 air handler. So he's dreaming if he's trying to make you think you are getting 18 out of it.
SEER is a big game and manufacturer marketing is getting more & more misleading with brands calling units a number based on maybe 1 or 2 matches. Dealers claiming SEER to customers can be dishonest as well - like here.
First off literature for that model unit should say up to 18 seer rating! Which means that between a (1.5-5 ton system) it can rated that high.
Originally Posted by Bmusgrove
So the 18 seer ratings are more then lickly in a (1.5-2) ton only and matched with a bigger sized/more efficent coil on the ratings but to the best of my knowledge I have not seen a XR15,XR16,XR17 and XL16 Rated that high before.
How to determine the seer rating is easy but hard. The outdoor condenser energy star tag reads 15 seer then that's what it is rated for but match it with certain coils and furances and can turn 16-17 seer.
So what I would ask is what are all the model numbers listed for the system matchup he choose to quote? With that a Ahri number should be avaiable to see what the actual seer rating is.
Hope this helps. It's not hard to arrive at what the seer rating is on
Paper with all the model numbers for all the equipment not just the condenser. I did a quick search and the best numbers I see this size unit achieving is 16 seer with the right coil and furance.
My mistake on the XR16. Things have changed. Thanks for the correction, duckman.
ok. The outside unit is 4TTR6036B1000A. The coii is a 4TXCB036BC3HCBA. I think the XV 90 (Mfg in 2001) is Tud080b9v3s.
One of my primary concerns was to get as efficient as possible, preferrably keeping the XV90 furnace as the new ones seem to differ only in the electronics. I have to rely on the dealer as there appears to be no way for a general end user to verify information. I would be extremely unhappy if the "Trane" technical document he showed me says 18 seer and its actually a 15 seer. I don't mind paying a little extra to get the higher efficiency. I am in Dallas Texas. Efficiency is very important in the nex 2-3 months !
Looks like this gets far too complicated for the end user to reliably make determination. I have to relly far too much on the delaers judgment without the ability to