Trane AC+furnace model selection

[AlX Boi]

Hi,

I've been lurking for a couple of weeks and have had a number of contractors come over to give an estimate on replacing my 20 year old system. I had two paths to go: (1) Upgrade to a fancy future-proof system or (2) Replace system with a standard modern system. I live in Orange County in Southern California, so path 1 just didn't make sense overall given the relatively short usage of the AC and furnace throughout the year.

I live in a 1,900 sqft 3-story townhouse. The AC is outside and furnace in the attic. I've narrowed down my selection to Trane to AC: 4 ton XB13 or XR13 and furance: XR80 or XL80. None of the contractors could give me any functional differences between the XB13 and XR13 other than the shell being different colors. The website also noted the XB13 being 48,000 BTU while the XR13 was 46,500. This was explained as the XR13 being more efficient. The XR13 also has a bit more insulation to give it a minor 2db difference in sound. These three features wouldn't justify the ~$ difference, so I'm wondering if you guys would be able to help me understand the differences. As for the furnace, there's a ~$ difference between the XR80 and XL80. I'm less informed about the differences and benefits of one over the other in this front.

Also, given Trane = American Standard, I'm still open to it if the price difference is noticeable; however, I can't seem to find the exact answers I'm looking for as far as actual differences. Given the lower-end models I'm selecting, would the comparable AS models offer the same warranty? Also, I've read and have been told Trane and AS comparable units are the exact same thing with the same model # sans the brand in its nomenclature. One contractor though, has told me AS does use slightly inferior parts in its units.

Overall, I'd love to hear any thoughts or suggestions in regards to the Trane models I've inquired about and the American Standard equivalents, if the cost difference justifies any differences in warranty and "parts quality." Thank you, and I'd really appreciate any input to help me make my final decision this week.

[duckman06]

Trane and American standard are the same system! So the parts are the same between the two.

The only Diffrance between XB13 and XR 13 is color and few minor details that you noted making the XR13 a little quiter over the XB13. All in all the same system just has a few things to make it quiter.

As far as American standard goes you would need to look at the aliance 13 to compare apples to apples.

As for the furnaces XR80 vs XL80. The XR80 is single stage heat compaired to the XL80 being two stage so there is a diffrence. As long as load cal was done either or system would be fine.

Don't sale many XL80 units but do sale many XV80 variable speed (2) stage gas furnaces. If offers the best of both worlds. XV80 Variable speed to help with humdity, hot and cool spots Etc...

Again as long as sized properly either or name would be fine but difference is the small things on the condensers being a little quiter then other same warranty as for the furance selection a few more benfits with (2) stage heating.

Hope this helps?

[BaldLoonie]

The XB13 is going to LG scrolls where the XR13 has the Alliance scroll. What's in stock may not reflect the XB change yet. But to me, a Trane without their own compressor is sad.

[tigerdunes]

Agree with Duckman.

I would not have the XL80 or XR80. If not the two stage var speed XV80, take a look at XT80 sgl stage furnace with high eff blower. Very quiet like the the XV80. I would prefer the XR13 condenser over the XB condenser, of course either with best matching Trane coil. Same HVAC available from sister company Am Standard sometimes less expensive.

IMO

[AlX Boi]

Thanks, duckman. My main concern has to do with the cost to benefit between the Trane XB and XR condensers and XR and XL furnaces. I wouldn't mind spending a little more for something higher than the base model, but if for instance, the only difference between the XB and XR is that the higher model is 2db quieter and has a different colored housing, it seems like I should just save some money and go with the XB. Also curious why anyone would choose the XR over the XB if that were the case.

For the furnace, it doesn't get very cold here in Southern California so I'm leaning toward the XR or XL over the XV given the prices I was quoted for them. Would you mind explaining in more detail a two-stage gas heat furnace over a single stage?

In regards to American Standard, I've been under the impression that it was one in the same as a Trane. A contractor has told me that even though them major components are the same, some of the other parts used are of lesser quality. I'm curious too about the warranties for these type of entry level models. The warranties are one exactly the same as Trane? If so, it would be to the benefit of my wallet to just go with AS, right? I'm sort of looking for a reason to go with Trane, but given that AS is cheaper and seems to be exactly the same in all aspects (parts, warranty, etc.), I'm still a little iffy.

Your help is appreciated.

[duckman06]

Thanks, duckman. My main concern has to do with the cost to benefit between the Trane XB and XR condensers and XR and XL furnaces. I wouldn't mind spending a little more for something higher than the base model, but if for instance, the only difference between the XB and XR is that the higher model is 2db quieter and has a different colored housing, it seems like I should just save some money and go with the XB. Also curious why anyone would choose the XR over the XB if that were the case.

For the furnace, it doesn't get very cold here in Southern California so I'm leaning toward the XR or XL over the XV given the prices I was quoted for them. Would you mind explaining in more detail a two-stage gas heat furnace over a single stage?

In regards to American Standard, I've been under the impression that it was one in the same as a Trane. A contractor has told me that even though them major components are the same, some of the other parts used are of lesser quality. I'm curious too about the warranties for these type of entry level models. The warranties are one exactly the same as Trane? If so, it would be to the benefit of my wallet to just go with AS, right? I'm sort of looking for a reason to go with Trane, but given that AS is cheaper and seems to be exactly the same in all aspects (parts, warranty, etc.), I'm still a little iffy.

Your help is appreciated.

Ok to touch on tigerdunes post which I agree with. The XR vs the XB condenser. XR is considered to be a little better do the quietness or features to help with that (important to Some customers others it not). Also the color belive it or not the XR has a darker grey color that some customers want over the basic tan color of the XB. The XB is considered to be a buildes grade Pieace of equipment because at one time it was Trane's base model. That all changed when the XB300 can out and the addition of Ameristar systems offered through Trane.

Again all in all the same outdoor unit just diffrent colors and features to make quieter if not important to you then the XB13 is a fine system and has the same warranty as the XR13.

Now to the furnaces. Base model furnaces that any manfactors offer or in this case Trane would be the XB80 or the XR80 both the same unit but the XR80 has taps or knobs on the front of it compaired to the XB80 having slots to remove panels etc... A cleaner looking furnace with the darker grey color like the XR13.

As for variable speed 2 stage, 2 stage or single stage. Variable speed offers for better humdity control with use of the comfort R mode in a XV80 model and has 2 stage heating ablity which offers for basically two speeds of heating low and high which helps with more even temps throughout the home and Again with variable speed offers for quiter operation and better humdity control 16% better.

XL 80 is just a (2) stage furnace that offers low and high heating speeds but nothing more. XR 80 and Xb80 are single stage gas heating so you have one speed heating only.

I would talke to your installer about the XV80 and take the money left over from the XR13 to XB13 and apply it there. Money well spent. Also not to give to many options but as tigerdunes pointed out there is also the XT80 single stage furance that had a x-13 high eff. Motor that uses less power and offers better eff. For the entire system as a hold.

Hope this helps and was not to confusing the simple fact is there are so many selections to choose from the key is taking with your installing company and let them explain the Diffrance as I don't no your budget or what you are truly trying to achieve or what you really want in a new system.

If explained right and humdity control is important to you I would say XV80 paired with XB or XR condenser proper sized and you will be happy.

[RyanHughes]

Also curious why anyone would choose the XR over the XB if that were the case.

I now would for the reason pointed out by Baldloonie above. Before I would recommend the XB13 as they were very similar to the XR13 minus some differences in the cabinet and overall noise. Have you considered an XB14? To my knowledge, the 14 is still mechanically equiavlent to the XR15, and would be worth considering along with the XR13. I would talk to your dealer about this. As previously said, distributor may not have any of the new XB13 models in stock yet, or if they do, they are getting rid of the older ones first (the "older ones" used Trane Climatuff compressors, reciprocating or scroll depending on size; now they are going to have LG scroll compressors).

[AlX Boi]

I think I'm convinced on the XR13 condenser, mainly because of the scroll part. As for the furnace, I was told by a contractor the XT is or is going to be discontinued very soon. The XV looks like a great unit, but the price difference I was quoted between the XV and XL is rather significant. Given that Southern California weather hardly goes below 50 degrees, and those nights really only last for 2 months, I had opted for a lower range model.

So the 2 stage furnace over the 1 stage. Would that be something worth spending some more over? I just realized, after seeing my original post, I can't state the actual price difference on this forum. My reluctance to step up to the XV might be more apparent if I could.

[tigerdunes]

"As for the furnace, I was told by a contractor the XT is or is going to be discontinued very soon. The XV looks like a great unit, but the price difference I was quoted between the XV and XL is rather significant."

Too bad. The XT model would be a much better compromise to the XB or XR furnace models.

As far as discontinuing the XT80, I have not heard that and find it difficult to believe considering all the major brands have a similar model with the high eff blower. Perhaps other Trane dealers can comment.

IMO

[duckman06]

XV 80 is worth the extra $$$ if in your budget. Lets just forget about 2 stage part of the this furnace it's just a bonus. I would focus on the variable speed operation of the XV 80.

Variable speed is something that will will pay more for upfront but yield back over time. In energy savings, quietness and better humdity control.

Just remember that the choose you make will be for the next 10-20 years. Invest a little more now for comfort if nothing else and you will be happy IMO.

It's hard to put a price on comfort but easy to say I will save $$$ up front! I have never had a customer that invested in variable speed be up happy with the choose once they see the operation of the system and what it can do.

[motoguy128]

A XR13 with XV80 is 14.5 SEER in most size matches. 2 stage heat woth VS blower is very nice for quietness, comfort and even temperatures. THe labor costs is hte same to install the equipment, so I think the incremental increase for hte better furance is worth it.

FYI - 4 tons is probably oversized for 1900sqft in your location. 1.5 to 2.5 tons is likely plenty depending on construction and specific location and a 60k BTU furnace (smallest size for a XV80). I doubt it will ever see high stage except if you try and raise the tmep more than 2F at one time. OVersized AC and furnace will result in more even temperatures, noisier airflow, less humidity control, and will be less effcient.

Design temps in Anaheim are just 39F winter and 89F summer with almost no humidity. On the coast in Laguna Beach, it drops to 43F winter and 80F summer (why bother with AC at all there?). 60k BTU would heat your home down to probably -10F... if you placed it in North Dakota. 4 tons would be enough for a 1900sqft townhome in Arizona or Houston.

[AlX Boi]

FYI - 4 tons is probably oversized for 1900sqft in your location. 1.5 to 2.5 tons is likely plenty depending on construction and specific location and a 60k BTU furnace (smallest size for a XV80). I doubt it will ever see high stage except if you try and raise the tmep more than 2F at one time. OVersized AC and furnace will result in more even temperatures, noisier airflow, less humidity control, and will be less effcient.

That's interesting. You're the first contractor to have ever said that. I've received estimates from 6 contractors, and only one of them told me to just stick with a 3.5 ton like the one my house came with. Everyone else said the builder must have skimped on the .5 ton while building to community to save a hefty sum for himself. Would you mind explaining more? Too my understanding, the general guideline is 500sqft/ton, then plus or minus depending on extremities of local weather.