Annual "tuneups" - necessary or sales pitch

[ga-hvac-tech]

So, I'm the customer. How do I know what I'm getting? That the work is actually done? Kangas list, nothing is filled out but some scratches on the bottom. What was done?

Where is the accountability? Proof shortcuts weren't taken?

If there is no clear list, how am I to differentiate between the $29 and the $129 service? I think we need some type of list outlining what should occur, and the numbers the tech should leave behind. Otherwise is it any surprise the $129 looks like someone just trying to grab an extra Benjamin?

Hmmm, I am gonna play devil's advocate with you: Lets say I make up a really nice looking list, and fill it out...

How do you know the numbers are real?

It all boils down to trust... do you trust the HVAC guy you called out?

In reality... there is NO WAY one can totally verify what was or was not done... unless one totally understands the equipment... In that case, why pay for service you can do yourself.

"Consumerism by the numbers alone" does not work.... one has to have a 'relationship' with the service provider as well as use a little common sense.
A business-owner (and IMO anyone that gives it any thought) will understand one cannot make enough $$$ to keep the lights on and eat on $29 service calls... just common sense. Remember the old saying: You get what you pay for? Consumers that think they can beat the system... usually get what they pay for.

Not busting you... just pointing out 'verification' is not reality...

[Mr Bill]

Hmmm, I am gonna play devil's advocate with you: Lets say I make up a really nice looking list, and fill it out...

Going deeper here, what if the list has 5 things to check on it, and they all are just visual things, and the homeowner don't know any better? Well you have done your job according to what your company states what is involved in a PM. Most homeowners are good to go with just seeing you check the freezon.
Everyone runs their business differentially, if you are doing a PM based on some of the lists I have seen in the past 30 years, your would be there half a day, so most PM lists are like a buffet for most company's, I will check this, and that, O that looks ok.

[toocoolforschool]

So, if the line was clear and draining at the time of your PM, and this happened later on, how would a annual maintenance check helped? Your post is what we sometimes called scare tactic in this business, I would like to know the percentage of the times, someone actually prevents something drastic from happening as in your post above, compared to nothing being wrong at all.

I like to play the law of averages. No maintenance will guarantee some probs, some maintenance will decrease the odds of having problems. Anyways I don't use scare tactics I just tell the truth and clean up the mess.

[Mr Bill]

I like to play the law of averages. No maintenance will guarantee some probs, some maintenance will decrease the odds of having problems. Anyways I don't use scare tactics I just tell the truth and clean up the mess.

For the record, I did not accuse you personally of using scare tactics, I said "Your post is what we sometimes call scare tactic in this business" "sometimes" being the key word.

[toocoolforschool]

I didn't take it personally. We all need a little maintenance once in a while.

[Spide]

pookley said "I read some other posts where people's systems were unnecessarily "adjusted" and caused further problems."

i think the same thing when when my doctor tells me to come in for blood work.

[Mr Bill]

We all need a little maintenance once in a while.

You are correct, the season has just begun, and I am already worn out, I should have went to my Doc and got a PM.

[Spide]

may i re-phrase the original question?

how often should the safety controls in my equipment be checked?

[udarrell]

A SERVICE EFFICIENCY CHECKUP; A LOT OF THINGS MAY NEED TUNING-UP:

What is most upsetting to me is when the system is not installed or designed properly and the customer calls for service because it doesn't seem to be cooling properly, the so-called tech comes out and puts the suction line gauge on a TXV metered coil, that pressure reading on a TXV doesn't tell you ZIP concerning if the unit is properly charged. Subcooling has to be checked, also superheat to verify TXV is holding near its SH setting but only after the airflow through the coil has been checked & is correct with clean indoor & outdoor coils.

Of course neither superheat nor subcooling is checked; the indoor blower wheel blades may not be checked for lint buildup, nor is the delivered cubic feet per minute of airflow to the rooms. Therefore usually, the original design flaws are never corrected, nor are the available choice options shown to the customer...

I would say the vast majority of the whole house systems are totally ignored as are the sizing of the equipment along with the sizing of the duct system and return air filter areas.

When replacing equipment the home and the design of every system needs to be checked and done right for optimal efficiency.
List the problems, explaining the consequences if not done right, & the cost of each procedure.

There is an unlimited amount of work that needs doing that is never checked so the customer has the option to fix those problems...they will never have near an optimally efficient performing system unless they correct those costly factors.

This is the right ROI way for a customer to invest their money verses one or two minor fixes that neglect the big economic factors...

[air1]

Assuming a system is properly installed, meaning proper airflow, no refrigerant leaks..etc., and the filters and condenser coil are kept clean, it should require very little maintenance. Do you have your refrigerator, dishwasher and oven inspected once ore twice a year? A HVAC system is basically an appliance. When something is wrong you will most likely know it. The one part that should be replace for preventative maintenance reasons is the contactor. But how long should a contactor last? 5 years? Otherwise I think it make more economic sense change your filters and run the system until it breaks.
For customers with heat pump that use there equipment year round and in dirty environments I recommend a maintenance every other year.

[jpsmith1cm]

Spide


Please check your PMs

Thanks, AOPC

[estherhead]

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[precision hvac]

I'll say this...................
When the heat wave hits, it's not my regular customers that call with their a/c out.
It's the new customer, the customer who feels it's a waste of money to perform annual maintenance or an old customer that hasn't called in years.

[beenthere]

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[tedkidd]

Ga, so if there is no track back to work performed, how do I know what was done?

I bet if 10 guys state what a furnace service (or heat pump service) entails, we'd get 10 different answers.

Very rarely do I find furnaces with any pressure test holes. Isn't ESP a basic service test?

And wouldn't having those numbers over time help indicate longevity?

[ga-hvac-tech]

Ga, so if there is no track back to work performed, how do I know what was done?

I bet if 10 guys state what a furnace service (or heat pump service) entails, we'd get 10 different answers.

Very rarely do I find furnaces with any pressure test holes. Isn't ESP a basic service test?

And wouldn't having those numbers over time help indicate longevity?

Truth be known Tedd... probably half the (licensed) folks in my area do not even know how to do an ESP test... much less own the instrument (and a lot of that group have not even heard of it--they do not even know how to do ductwork measurements and determine airflow)--I know this from conversations at the counter of supply houses... even folks who appear to be intelligent. And no, tune-ups do not include duct testing... they are equipment checks. The problem is... when it comes to ductwork; unless there is a 'glaring' issue (like a room that is 10D off temp), almost ALL homeowners say; 'well it has worked for ____ years, it does not need fixing' (it is a $$$ thing).

As to verification (do not take this personally); If you stood a bit back from a mechanic updating the software of the computer in your vehicle... could you tell if they did it correctly... or for that matter if they put the correct software in? Nobody who was not trained on that procedure could... So if the tech said (or wrote) they did, how do you really know... truth be told... you do not. As I said... this idea of verification is a hoax.

This idea of consumers not trusting the trades-folks they call out... rather treating them like hired labor... well us PROFESSIONALS in the trade resent it... and honestly when we talk to a 'new customer' with that attitude... well most of the folks I throw them a high price to run them off. An over-bearing and non-trusting customer is a pain in the a**... and not worth it when there are 10 more (without the attitude) ready to do business.

As I said: This idea of consumerism strictly by the numbers... is not a good idea. Here is an example: In my area we do not have extreme (as compared to other parts of the USA) weather; design temps are 22 and 92... not exactly HOT or COLD. Literally NO high efficiency equipment will have a reasonably payback, it is about comfort. So what would a 'by the numbers' consumer do... they would buy the cheapest system from the cheapest hack to install it... then wonder why it did not work right and needed endless service. Do you see how this 'by the numbers' thing is not reality...

OTOH: GA (myself) sells more VS furnaces than standard, and a lot of 16 SEER 2 stage AC to go along with the VS furnace (VS furnaces are all 2 stage heat). Here is a question for you Tedd... why do folks, KNOWING there is not going to be a financial payback, buy the high end system?

[gatorgar55]

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[jtrammel]

Went on one today we installed 15 years ago and havent been back since, couldn't even see the package unit due to kudzu. Took me an hour to cut back all the kudzu to get to it. Evap had 1/4" of dog hair ect and condenser was all but completely clogged, 160* condensing temp. Washed coils started back up. 1/2 the cap tubes are fouled up probably from cooked oil.

[beenthere]

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[jacob-k]

I rarely do a maintenance and find nothing wrong, some of the newer installs that came from new construction I tend to find less, but older equipment and ductwork I generally run into problems. but with that being said I go through the whole system, in the attic, under the house I dont care, ive found more ductwork problems from rodents and duct tape then I can believe. then theres a very thorough work sheet I go through, from amps, electrical, disconnect, capacitors, pressures, temps, subcooling/superheat, static pressure, and many other tests that my equipment does simply by poking a couple holes in your ducts/plenums, but to be honest a good trained eye will catch and look at ten times whats on that paper. But there is more, or should be more involved in a maintenance plan, like priority calling, atleast 10% or more discount on parts and labor, a warranty on parts the company replaces on your system, discounts on upgrades you might decide to make, things of that nature.