NEW CONSTRUCTION: Acceptable cooling temps in Texas

[BAVE]

Hello. Throughout our build process this forum has been a great help. We are at the final stage of our construction in deep South Texas and I have a question regarding acceptable standards. We have a 5000 sq foot (living) single story home with very very high ceilings throughout. The construction is 2 inch concrete block covered by stucco and open cell foam spray throughout for insulation. Windows are relatively large though few and small only on the south facing side of the home. The home has three units consisting of a 5 ton and two 3 ton units.

What is the acceptable temperature low for a home in this environment (average 100 degree day)? In other words, should the home be able to cool to 72 degrees, 76 degrees, etc?

[Shophound]

Can you actually cool that large house to 72 degrees on a 100 degree day? I mean, have you actually tried it? And...do you need it to be that cool to be comfortable? In my experience, asking a system to keep a house that cold is often symptomatic of subpar system design. If everything was sized and installed correctly, you should be comfortable at 75 or 76 degrees. The key is humidity control, which is the first thing that suffers if the system design is not right.

[BAVE]

Can you actually cool that large house to 72 degrees on a 100 degree day? I mean, have you actually tried it? And...do you need it to be that cool to be comfortable? In my experience, asking a system to keep a house that cold is often symptomatic of subpar system design. If everything was sized and installed correctly, you should be comfortable at 75 or 76 degrees. The key is humidity control, which is the first thing that suffers if the system design is not right.

Humidity has been steady in mid/upper 40s to mid 50s max. Peak heat outside today was 98 degrees and the central area of the home (large family room, kitchen, dining, theater room) would not reach below 78 degrees until now (7pm) where it finally hit 77. The system has been running continuously for hours. The two other sides of the home have reached down to 75-76. We are comfortable at 77 in this heat but we are very concerned that the unit in the main area of the home is inadequate. Temperatures are guaranteed to rise an additional 5-7 degrees over the next few months.

[Shophound]

When you say you have very, very high ceilings, just how high is that? And where are the supply registers located in the large room with very high ceilings that won't drop below 77 degrees?

Also, did you go with a sealed attic insulated at the roof deck, or is it a standard vented attic with a dark shingled roof with insulation on the attic floor? Are there many penetrations in the ceiling such as recessed lights? Do you have pulldown stairs to the attic inside the house? How well shaded are your windows during the day?

[BAVE]

When you say you have very, very high ceilings, just how high is that? And where are the supply registers located in the large room with very high ceilings that won't drop below 77 degrees?

Also, did you go with a sealed attic insulated at the roof deck, or is it a standard vented attic with a dark shingled roof with insulation on the attic floor? Are there many penetrations in the ceiling such as recessed lights? Do you have pulldown stairs to the attic inside the house? How well shaded are your windows during the day?

The central area is a family room/kitchen with suspended beams. The peak hits 26 ft. Windows are facing north. There is no attic space above and the space between roof and ceiling was filled with open cell. Shingles are clay. The remainder of the home has attic space insulated throughout at the roof deck and also blown in above the garage. Supply registers are located at approximately 16 ft up (2 above kitchen) and 11 ft up (3 in family room). The design, unfortunately, did not allow for higher registers. The builder has built this home once prior and the owner is not having the same issues though I am not informed of the systems design.

[dan sw fl]

Hello.. The construction is 2 inch concrete block covered by stucco and open cell foam spray throughout for insulation.

What is the acceptable temperature low for a home in this environment (average 100 degree day)? In other words, should the home be able to cool to 72 degrees, 76 degrees, etc?

Do you really have to worry about Any Temperature?

2" concrete block may not be able to withstand a 40 MPH wind.
Regular block is 8 x 8 x 16" Minimum.

http://www.marshallconcreteproducts....ShapesandSizes

[dan sw fl]

Supply registers are located at approximately 16 ft up (2 above kitchen) and 11 ft up (3 in family room).

5 supply registers for 11 tons is Not adequate for 5,000 Square foot house with 26 foot high walls built with 2" blocks.

[BAVE]

Another HVAC tech had commented that the issue may be the return. Our main room is an open 22x37 room with the return located around the corner approximately one foot into the connecting hallway in a closet housing the unit (complete air flow into unit via louvered door).

[mark beiser]

I'm assuming that when you say 2" concrete block covered by stucco, that the walls are also framed, and have insulation in the stud spaces?

If the house was truly insulated as you say, and is sealed somewhat tighter than a pole barn, 11 tons of cooling is way more than that house should ever need if the equipment and house are actually performing properly.

Unfortunately, the usual scenario is that neither the HVAC equipment or house perform as they should because of design and installation problems.

[BAVE]

5 supply registers for 11 tons is Not adequate for 5,000 Square foot house with 26 foot high walls built with 2" blocks.

5 registers is for one room with the 3.5 ton unit. There are dozens of registers in the home. The 2" solid Contec block is in place of brick (stucco home) and in addition to framing, barrier, etc.

[firecontrol]

Hello. Throughout our build process this forum has been a great help. We are at the final stage of our construction in deep South Texas and I have a question regarding acceptable standards. We have a 5000 sq foot (living) single story home with very very high ceilings throughout. The construction is 2 inch concrete block covered by stucco and open cell foam spray throughout for insulation. Windows are relatively large though few and small only on the south facing side of the home. The home has three units consisting of a 5 ton and two 3 ton units.

What is the acceptable temperature low for a home in this environment (average 100 degree day)? In other words, should the home be able to cool to 72 degrees, 76 degrees, etc?

First thing is how many days has the air conditioning been running? Are you leaving the home closed up 24/7 and running the a/c? How long had the systems been running when you became concerned about the lowest temperatures you were seeing?

Main reason I'm asking is that your a/c systems will put a lot of their capacity into dehumidifying a structure (especially a brand new one) when first turned on. With the size of yours and depending on the moisture that could be contained within the home's structure and items in it, this moisture removal "time" could be potentially days. Not saying this is your issue, but if we assume that the systems have been installed and "adjusted" to peak operating efficiency and they were sized correctly this would be some of the first things I'd check.

A way to see if there is excessive moisture in the home is to turn all the a/c off for an hour and monitor how quickly the humidity level rises. Not a scientific way by any means, but it can give an idea.

The other thing you can do is check how much condensate/water is coming from the drains for each unit. Again not a measure of anything other than it gives an idea how much moisture the system(s) are working to remove.

Being a new home it comes down to asking questions of the contractor that put the systems in. They are the only ones that know what went in and how it's working..... or they should.

[BAVE]

I'm assuming that when you say 2" concrete block covered by stucco, that the walls are also framed, and have insulation in the stud spaces?

If the house was truly insulated as you say, and is sealed somewhat tighter than a pole barn, 11 tons of cooling is way more than that house should ever need if the equipment and house are actually performing properly.

Unfortunately, the usual scenario is that neither the HVAC equipment or house perform as they should because of design and installation problems.

This is what we've been concerned about all along. There is no shortage of shoddy contractors out here. We assumed because our builder usually builds multi million dollar homes our smaller home would be an "easy build". The cubic footage of this home is probably far from customary for a 5000 sq ft home. Some bedrooms reach 16 ft high in addition to attic space above. Most hallways are 10-12 ft high and formal areas reach 18-26 ft.

[BAVE]

First thing is how many days has the air conditioning been running? Are you leaving the home closed up 24/7 and running the a/c? How long had the systems been running when you became concerned about the lowest temperatures you were seeing?

Main reason I'm asking is that your a/c systems will put a lot of their capacity into dehumidifying a structure (especially a brand new one) when first turned on. With the size of yours and depending on the moisture that could be contained within the home's structure and items in it, this moisture removal "time" could be potentially days. Not saying this is your issue, but if we assume that the systems have been installed and "adjusted" to peak operating efficiency and they were sized correctly this would be some of the first things I'd check.

A way to see if there is excessive moisture in the home is to turn all the a/c off for an hour and monitor how quickly the humidity level rises. Not a scientific way by any means, but it can give an idea.

The other thing you can do is check how much condensate/water is coming from the drains for each unit. Again not a measure of anything other than it gives an idea how much moisture the system(s) are working to remove.

Being a new home it comes down to asking questions of the contractor that put the systems in. They are the only ones that know what went in and how it's working..... or they should.

The systems have been on and running for approximately 6 weeks. We are living in the home but the home is not 100% complete. The HVAC sub has been back and forth increasing supply registers, balancing, and has even changed out two of the air handlers (upgraded to more efficient units). The rest of the homes system seems to be functioning well. They repeatedly site the Manual J report but have yet to produce it when requested.

Also, all of the units are removing quite a bit of moisture. Its pretty apparent when observing the air handlers.

[jimj]

In other words, should the home be able to cool to 72 degrees, 76 degrees, etc?

Normal design temps are 75* ( 50% humidity) summer, 70* winter. Have you installed all your privacy window shading/blinds?

[BAVE]

Normal design temps are 75* ( 50% humidity) summer, 70* winter. Have you installed all your privacy window shading/blinds?

Ok when the system is correctly sized, installed, etc. it should be able to reach a temperature of 75 degrees if exterior temp is approx 100? Sounds reasonable and what we are achieving in all other areas of the home. The area of concern has windows (wall of 8ft tall x 18 ft wide ) but they do not have coverings. There is no direct sun because the large patio is covering/shading. There are several 2x1.5 ft windows at the top of the room that are not covered for aesthetic reasons. They are a dual paned (very thick glass) but not tinted, covered etc. The rest of the home has window coverings.

[Shophound]

This is what we've been concerned about all along. There is no shortage of shoddy contractors out here. We assumed because our builder usually builds multi million dollar homes our smaller home would be an "easy build". The cubic footage of this home is probably far from customary for a 5000 sq ft home. Some bedrooms reach 16 ft high in addition to attic space above. Most hallways are 10-12 ft high and formal areas reach 18-26 ft.

Merely a comment, but can someone in the architectural world, design world, or builder world please tell me why a single story house in far south Texas really needs ceilings that peak at 26 feet??

The scant info I found online about Contec wall systems show a minimum thickness of 4".

[jimj]

Ok when the system is correctly sized, installed, etc. it should be able to reach a temperature of 75 degrees if exterior temp is approx 100? Sounds reasonable and what we are achieving in all other areas of the home. The area of concern has windows (wall of 8ft tall x 18 ft wide ) but they do not have coverings. There is no direct sun because the large patio is covering/shading. There are several 2x1.5 ft windows at the top of the room that are not covered for aesthetic reasons. They are a dual paned (very thick glass) but not tinted, covered etc. The rest of the home has window coverings.

When doing a Manual J the designer would figure blinds/ window covering for 8' x 18' windows for privacy purposes ( unless told differently by the GC or owner), but would not for the 2' x 1.5' as they are for daylight lighting. You may have great overhangs/ patio's but even GREAT windows are not walls.

[jimj]

Merely a comment, but can someone in the architectural world, design world, or builder world please tell me why a single story house in far south Texas really needs ceilings that peak at 26 feet??

The scant info I found online about Contec wall systems show a minimum thickness of 4".

To give HVAC contractors headaches! LOL

[dan sw fl]

Merely a comment, but can someone in the architectural world, design world, or builder world please tell me why a single story house in far south Texas really needs ceilings that peak at 26 feet??

The scant info I found online about Contec wall systems show a minimum thickness of 4".

2" must be a Special design.

_ E Special ly Weak .. that may be susceptible to fail in Any wind storm.

[timjimbob]

Lot of laten heat from drywall, paint etc.. May change alot after you 100% finished and humidity stablizes. AC first spend energy removing humidity then gets to work dropping temperature.

Remember,high ceiling do not require more AC. It is the sq. ft. of the walls and roof, not the volume.