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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    11,568

    How do a Continental pizza prep table work ?

    Continental
    M. # CPT67
    S. # 14440789

    Copeland Compressor
    M. # AFE11C3E IAA 901
    S.. 12C00073E
    121 VAC
    Condenser air: 85/99
    Head pressure: 309 / 119
    Suction Pressure: 63/25
    Comp. suction temp: 62
    LL temp: 111 (both sides of drier)
    Discharge temp: 196
    Evap air: 57/53
    Compressor RLA: 5.6A
    Actual amps: 6.35A

    This prep table has two TXV's and two LLSV's. The box TXV/LLSV appears to be controlled by a stat at the evap coil. But I can't find anything which controls to upper deck LLSV except a manual rocker switch.

    Is that the way this box is controlled?

    It seems to have sufficient SC to have the box TXV controlling properly . But even with the box temp at 45 F. the SSH was way high.

    The compressor / condensing unit is said to be new. So I'm not sure if they match (the condensing unit and the case). But what I want to know is: where the hell is the extra amp coming from? I had to jump out the O/L to even get the above data.

    Since these readings were taken I blasted out the condenser coil with a garden hose - because I ended up cleaning out several others in the place - so the numbers may have changed slightly.

    Nonetheless: what do you all think?
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Chicagoland Area
    Posts
    4,327
    LPC should control it. No?
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

    I know enough to know, I don't know enough
    Liberalism-Ideas so good they mandate them

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    11,568

    Good point -

    I forget to mention:

    There is also a LP control. It has a hand-written note on it: Cut-out: 33 Summer / 38 winter.

    So the stat on the evap controls the box temperature and the LP control controls the upper deck temperature?

    If so: what shall I set the LP control for? (R-404) So maybe Cut-in at 82 lbs. and maybe Cut-out at 53 lbs. ?

    And what about the excess amp draw?

    PHM
    ------




    Quote Originally Posted by 2sac View Post
    LPC should control it. No?
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,330
    t-stat inside the box and the upper is on a l/p control..
    Let's give nukes a chance.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    11,568
    So are my settings correct for 404 ?

    PHM
    -------





    Quote Originally Posted by primmers View Post
    t-stat inside the box and the upper is on a l/p control..
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    mid-Tennessee
    Posts
    589
    Quote Originally Posted by Poodle Head Mikey View Post
    So are my settings correct for 404 ?

    PHM
    -------
    PHM. Here's a manual. Page 12 has the recommended low pressure control settings for the rail. That head pressure is surely too high. Is that a remote condenser for a prep table? Continental likes to do that:
    Attached Images Attached Images

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    DFW, TX
    Posts
    571
    I have worked on a few of these. If the unit does not have an open area in the back to discharge the hot condenser air, the hot air will recirculate inside the mechanical area. (For example if the unit is up against a wall with other units next to it) The solution Continental has is a special front cover that has a divider and an exhaust fan at the top to blow out the hot air to reduce recirculation of air through the condenser coil.

    As with all Continental units, the condensing unit is undersized for normal to heavy usage. But it should work great in a 70* ambient with light usage! Ok I'm not an engineer, maybe I'm being harsh, but I know for a FACT that Contintental will use much smaller condensing units on any given unit, than say, Delfield, or True.

    Since the cold rail has no fans it will run a lower SST, so it can frost up. Since the base runs a higher SST, any time the base thermostat is calling, the SST will be too high for the cold rail to frost up. So if you had a situation where the doors / drawers on the base stay open, causing long run times, then the cold rail will suffer first. In other words, the cold rail can't "do its thing" until the base is cycled off.

    That being said, the cold rail MUST be turned off every night so the ice can melt, and the food must be removed. In the morning the cold rail needs to be wiped out (unless it has a drain). The cold rail lid should stay closed over the food during the day, except during periods of heavy usage. The cold rail cannot be near any type of A/C vent that blows air towards it. The Food must all be below 40*f before it is put into the cold rail. The food cannot be stacked above the load limit lines in the pans that they put into the cold rail. Man, I should be a factory support tech, huh?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Ohio, USA
    Posts
    159
    Wow great post!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Chicagoland Area
    Posts
    4,327
    Quote Originally Posted by trippintl0 View Post
    I have worked on a few of these. If the unit does not have an open area in the back to discharge the hot condenser air, the hot air will recirculate inside the mechanical area. (For example if the unit is up against a wall with other units next to it) The solution Continental has is a special front cover that has a divider and an exhaust fan at the top to blow out the hot air to reduce recirculation of air through the condenser coil.

    As with all Continental units, the condensing unit is undersized for normal to heavy usage. But it should work great in a 70* ambient with light usage! Ok I'm not an engineer, maybe I'm being harsh, but I know for a FACT that Contintental will use much smaller condensing units on any given unit, than say, Delfield, or True.

    Since the cold rail has no fans it will run a lower SST, so it can frost up. Since the base runs a higher SST, any time the base thermostat is calling, the SST will be too high for the cold rail to frost up. So if you had a situation where the doors / drawers on the base stay open, causing long run times, then the cold rail will suffer first. In other words, the cold rail can't "do its thing" until the base is cycled off.

    That being said, the cold rail MUST be turned off every night so the ice can melt, and the food must be removed. In the morning the cold rail needs to be wiped out (unless it has a drain). The cold rail lid should stay closed over the food during the day, except during periods of heavy usage. The cold rail cannot be near any type of A/C vent that blows air towards it. The Food must all be below 40*f before it is put into the cold rail. The food cannot be stacked above the load limit lines in the pans that they put into the cold rail. Man, I should be a factory support tech, huh?
    In addition to this I have also installed cabinet legs on the backside of the cabinet so they cannot push the unit against the wall.
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

    I know enough to know, I don't know enough
    Liberalism-Ideas so good they mandate them

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    11,568

    Hello? Continental Tech Support ?

    Uhhh . . . yeah. How can I help you?

    I have a pizza prep table that draws high amps.

    Yeah; they do that sometimes. Especially when they run hot.

    What is the maximum ambient temperature rating?

    Oh; it's not very high.

    Do you use numbers there? Is there a published rating? Or even a secret rating you could tell me?

    Yeah, well, they do tend to run a little warm.

    This is a refrigerated pizza prep table. I'm not kidding; that is the actual name on your website.

    Yes it is; I looked up the model number. Pizza Prep. That's right.

    Let me ask you another question: what with choosing a name like that and all do you imagine that Continental may have anticipated the use of this unit somewhere at least somewhat Close to a pizza oven? Certainly they would have pictured that it would be used at least in a commercial kitchen don't you think?

    I would guess so - that sounds about right.

    Oh that reminds me: is this 1/3HP condensing unit the right size for this case? It seems a little small to me.

    Me too - I always tell people to install a 1/2 HP unit after the 1/3 compressors go bad.

    Is that a common thing?

    Yeah; they don't last long. But maybe the halfs do - I don't really know.

    So anyway; this compressor draws too much amperage. What would cause that?

    Could be a lot of things.

    Like what? Could you maybe narrow it down for me?

    Maybe the compressor is going bad?

    That could be but if I jump out the overload the compressor runs and cools the box. Otherwise it short cycles on the compressor overload. That doesn't seem right to me.

    No; that's not good - it shouldn't do that all the time.

    Oh; when Should it do it?

    I don't really know.

    I have a list of the operating conditions here - would that help you get to the bottom of this amp draw question? Want me to read them to you?

    It's probably just too hot.

    I wrote down here that the air going into the condenser coil was 85 - is that too hot?

    It's pretty hot; yeah.

    Is that too hot for this machine?

    Probably yeah.

    What temperature ambient would make it work right?

    It would have to be cooler?

    Fifty? Thirty? What temperature would work?

    I'm not really sure - but cooler air would probably make it work better.

    Do you find that a lot of pizza oven baking areas are air conditioned? Anything like that? I mean in your experience.

    Probably not, no.

    So let's get back to this excessive amp draw - what does Continental want me to tell the customer? Just buy a new one?

    We don't make that unit any more.

    Why is that? Too many complaints?

    I don't know - just a complete redesign - we don't use the top freezer any more - air just blows on the pans.

    So the high amp draw on this unit is just the way it is? Nothing we can do to fix it?

    Just keep it clean and that's about the best you can do.

    Tell me what the air into and out of the condenser coil should be.

    The condenser?

    Yes; it's next to the compressor - air goes across it, gets heated up, and the temperature increases. How much of a difference would be good?

    Oh that's a good one - I'm not really too sure about that . . .

    Well how will I know when the condenser is clean enough? Say I cleaned it perfectly - just like it was when you measured it there in the factory - what would you be looking for? To make sure it was OK and all? I have 85 in and 99 out - is that OK?

    Sounds a little high?

    What number would I have had to say before you didn't think it was a little high? Say the air was coming out at 95 - would that be OK?

    I'm not sure.

    OK; how about if it was going in like I said and coming out at say; 75 - would that be OK?

    No one has ever asked that before - I'm just not sure.

    How about coming out at 65 ? Would that reduce the amp draw?

    It might.

    And if not then what? If I clean the condenser and it still doesn't work what should I do? Tell the customer to buy a different brand.

    I guess they would have to at that point.

    OK; thanks for all your help. I'll go tell the now.

    Bye-bye.

    =============

    Hey! I just thought of something! Maybe the guy who cut all the wires out of the Anthony Display Wall Door's wiring trough last week got fired after I ratted him out and he has since been hired to head Continental's Tech Service Group!
    PHM
    --------
    The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    2,750
    so I guess you're going with the 1/2 hp condensing unit ?

    would the customer go for this ?

    How about just adding a second coil to remove some of that heat .... double row coil ??

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    1,111

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,330
    i have 3 customers with this case..im not a fan of the design, and i wonder what they had in mind when producing the thing..
    its kinda labor intensive !!
    Let's give nukes a chance.

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