ReplyTry Google and no smoking near it.
Originally Posted by raulsteichen
Regular Guest
Anyone know where I can find a good recommended SuperHeat table/chart for a generic residential capillary tube system (fixed orifice, 2 tons) running R290?
Professional Member*
Try Google and no smoking near it.
Professional Member*
What's your location?
Regular Guest
Yeah, I tried that of course. If you can find it on Google please post a link.
Professional Member*
PT for R290.pdf
There U go.
Regular Guest
Thanks, but I already had one of those. I was thinking of a chart that shows recommendations for superheat. I have a chart that gives recommended SH for R22 based on indoor temp, humidity, etc. But I can't find one for R290. I wonder if I could just use the same numbers considering that their properties are similar? Otherwise someone must have made a chart......but I can't find one.
Professional Member*
Again what's your location? If in the US read this
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/r22a.html
Regular Guest
Thanks Marty, that's interesting. I guess they're still waiting for someone to pay up and jump through they're hoops in the USAProbably not a lot of companies lining up to pay the legal and research bill though, as there won't be much of an opportunity to recoup it with markups.
I work in various jurisdictions, but none that are beholden to the EPA. By the way, doesn't EPA stand for ENVIRONMENTAL Protection Agency? I'm not sure how restricting one particular use of a widely used consumer and industrial product (propane) would do anything to protect the environment. More likely they are protecting the current Freon market from collapse.
But anyway, I don't want to hijack my own thread. I'm just interested in finding a good R290/R22a/Propane SuperHeat chart.
Professional Member
Its just like 22.
Professional Member
Very true my friend! The all almighty EPA is nothing but a joke, a money making tool use by the big corporations. we are living in the Matrix here, everyone is indulging on the blue pill.
Professional Member*
does anyone remember OZ-12 back in the 80's for automotive A/C, showed a dummy lighting a cigarette and the car Exploding Just make sure you don't have a leak....
Regular Guest
It's okay. I have a propane stove in my kitchen that my wife uses, and even purposely light propane on fire sometimes that is spewing from an open valve when I want to solder pipes (torch)
Professional Member
The superheat has nothing to do with the refrigerant and everything to do with the system operating conditions, as you said.
A superheat chart is a superheat chart is a superheat chart. Just use it.
In fact, circulating in the Pro section of this forum is a generic formula to compute target superheat given operating conditions. It doesn't take refrigerant type into account.
Get your post count up and become a Pro and someone will surely share it with you.
Professional Member*
You the Man !!
Professional Member*
It's okay. I have a propane stove in my kitchen that my wife uses, and even purposely light propane on fire sometimes that is spewing from an open valve when I want to solder pipes (torch)
X2
like many others, my first impression of propane as a refrigerant was "Danger, Danger, Will Robinson". But now with a better understanding, I'm no longer afraid.
There is not a risk of fire inside a refrigeration system because a large amount of oxygen would be needed. The only danger i see is unbrazing a line under pressure, but refrigerant oil is also flammable, this is already a known and accepted risk.
The fuel/air mixture has to be just right in order to have combustion. This is easier said than done.
Considering the amounts of propane, I definitely agree that your propane stove is more dangerous.
Remember, Don't try this at home and always wear safety glasses
Professional Member
Propane or natural gas line going inside buildings is some weak sauce pressure like 10" WC which is under *half* psig. In cold areas, sometimes propane has trouble keeping up enough pressure to supply the appliance demand.X2
like many others, my first impression of propane as a refrigerant was "Danger, Danger, Will Robinson". But now with a better understanding, I'm no longer afraid.
There is not a risk of fire inside a refrigeration system because a large amount of oxygen would be needed. The only danger i see is unbrazing a line under pressure, but refrigerant oil is also flammable, this is already a known and accepted risk.
The fuel/air mixture has to be just right in order to have combustion. This is easier said than done.
Considering the amounts of propane, I definitely agree that your propane stove is more dangerous.
Remember, Don't try this at home and always wear safety glasses
If safety was no big deal, you can make this issue go away by simply feedine liquid line into the house and use the chimney to vaporize the propane just like it is done using the engine coolant on propane forklifts rather than relying on air to tank heat exchange. Immediate and sudden release of 2-3 lbs of liquid propane in one localized point is no biggie right?
While we're at it, why even run natural gas to equipment at 7 INCHES WC when you can skip the regulator and meter and feed directly to the appliance with a 1/8" line from distribution pressure at 300 psig? Look at those fat pipes on commercial gas meters. If they can simply bring gas indoors at 300 psig, they can get away with 3/8" line. Look at the size of liquid fed fuel line on a 400 hp automobile compared to that of a gas feeding a 400 hp natural gas generator.
Professional Member
We make duct work as air tight as possible no. A odorless propane refrigerant leak in a evap sitting in your basement is a ticking time bomb for a unlucky serviceman and ask Hanna Storm about lighting a grill outside. Could you make a safe R-290 system ....... YesIt's okay. I have a propane stove in my kitchen that my wife uses, and even purposely light propane on fire sometimes that is spewing from an open valve when I want to solder pipes (torch)
Will we be safe ........ Probably going to here some horrible stories soon about how dangerous it is but never hear how R-290 was not the problem just like CO.
Regular Guest
I have actual experience converting systems and using R290.
It's safe. But the biggest danger is a technician going on site and not knowing the system is running R290.
The thermal charismatics are very similar to R22 however the orifice size is way different.
it is more fluid than R22. You need a smaller piston or need to tweak a R22 TxV cap tube... Forget about it.
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