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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    136

    Any comments about all climate heat pumps?

    This company is touting a new type of air source heat pump called a all climate heat pump:

    http://www.gotohallowell.com/

    Anyone have any comments?
    Thanks,

    Mark

  2. #2

    RE: All Climate Heat Pump

    Mark,

    I am a contractor who became a believer in this design, resulting in my start up of a distribution company to carry the product in the Western US. It really does what they claim. I encourage you to visit our website for more details, at:

    www.uswesco.com

    You are also welcome to contact me with any questions or comments you may have regarding the ACHP system.

    Yours truly,

    USWESCO, Inc.

    Malachi J Salcido, CPA
    President
    Last edited by USWESCO; 09-04-2007 at 11:10 AM. Reason: sp

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    16
    I hope I don't hurt anybody's feelings, I'm not a firm believer in heat pumps for heating.
    I'm sure that the claims they make are valid (e.g. COP 2.8). This makes that for every KWh you're using and have to pay for, you get 2.8 KWh heat.

    There is a comparison on the All Climate's [AC] websitehttp://www.gotohallowell.com/index.p...d=22&Itemid=43)
    and of course, the heat pump is the absolute winner.

    You have to do your own math. AC apparently uses an example that needs 100,000,000 BTU per season.

    AC uses $0.10 per KWh. If you pay more or less, the heating cost will proportionally go up or down. E.g. if you pay $0.12 per kWH, they yearly cost will be $1,046 * 0.12 / 0.10 = $1,255

    Of course, heating with electric heaters is crazy.

    My house is heated with natural gas. At $12.5 per MCF (thousand cu. ft. / 1,000,000 BTU), this would take 100 MCF/0.95 = 105 MCF and cost $1,312.
    (with 95% efficiency burner)

    About the same as the heat pump.

    Propane will turn out to be about 70% more expensive than natural gas.
    No 2 Heating Oil is 30% more expensive than natural gas.

    You do your own math. If it comes out about equal or even with an advantage for the heat pump, ask yourself the question: do I really want to use my costly and complex infrastructure to save a bit of money?
    Fans, compressor, valves will wear out faster if used more. What is the cost for a new system + yearly maintenance/repair costs?

    I like to use my heat pump as back-up. When the heater is down, I still can heat my house in the Winter.

  4. #4

    ACHP comparison response

    Eric,

    Thank you for your thoughtful response. I do agree with you that the financial justification for heat pumps can vary greatly depending upon the home or business location, current system, and energy prices.

    Heat pump technology is actually a very stable design that really does work well and at greater efficiencies than either heating with resistance heat or fossil fuels. Heat pumps, if installed correctly, will serve a relatively long (16-25 year) life with relatively few major mechanical problems. The key across the HVAC spectrum of options is that a system be sized and installed correctly.

    One must also consider the fact that an HVAC system is a major, considered purchase with a long product life. Most "experts" in the energy industry agree that electricity will remain more stable in price and will rise less dramatically than fossil fuels over the next 16-25 years.

    Many locations do not have access to natural gas and are currently heating with either propane or electric heat. As you pointed out, these are significantly more expensive heating options, even at current prices.

    Finally, what make the All Climate Heat Pump stand head and shoulders above a standard air source heat pump system?

    The answer is twofold. First, the ACHP can run in low ambient temperatures, down to below zero, and maintain an elevated system pressure, efficient heat transfer, and hot delivery air temperatures -- without the aid of auxiliary electric resistance heat. (The system's furnace still does contain an auxiliary heat source, for aid during defrost cycles and as an emergency heat source in case of a mechanical problem, so you are covered.) Second, The ACHP defrosts significantly less often than a standard heat pump. A standard HP system will defrost every 30-90 minutes of run time, while the ACHP can go days without defrosting under the same conditions. How? Due to the condensing unit design, the outdoor coil can efficiently absorb heat from the outside air while maintaining a tight temperature difference. This means that water freezes up much more slowly on the outdoor coil surface, requiring much fewer defrost cycles to keep the coil cleared of ice.

    These two unique design elements combine for substantially more efficient and cost effective heating. Combined with the twin stage air conditioning mode, this system is a very efficient heating & cooling alternative to traditional heat pumps or fossil fuel burning alternatives.

    All said, the All Climate Heat Pump is a great option to consider anywhere, even Dallas.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    2

    What if you have Solar Panels

    All the comparisons I have found so far compare natural gas to electric rates. I am installing solar panels which should virtually eliminate my electricity bill. I'm getting a 6MW system, but I can get upto 10 here in NJ with excellent incentives. If I get 8mw, wouldn't the cost operating the Hallowell air pump be almost free? It would be more efficient than my central AC units as well for the summer. I'd welcome any help on the math, especially if they are certified to install this in NJ.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    3,618

    Hmm

    On the Hallowell HP subject, I've looked at their system and one glaring problems seems to be warranty. We install air to air units with lifetime compressor or lifetime HP replacement if compressor ever fails, 10 yr. parts, and optional 10 yr. labor warranties (that are free during certain times!). This Hallowell system does not have a comparable warranty that I could see. Basically they are using an additional compressor to boost the low temp. performance? I'd be more interested if warranty gave me more protection!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    45
    Quote Originally Posted by Hemang View Post
    All the comparisons I have found so far compare natural gas to electric rates. I am installing solar panels which should virtually eliminate my electricity bill. I'm getting a 6MW system, but I can get upto 10 here in NJ with excellent incentives. If I get 8mw, wouldn't the cost operating the Hallowell air pump be almost free? It would be more efficient than my central AC units as well for the summer. I'd welcome any help on the math, especially if they are certified to install this in NJ.

    I also live in New Jersey and we installed our first 7kw system in 2004 and an 1.8kw wind turbine in 2006 then another 3kw solar in late 2007.

    We use an air source heat pump with 15kw heat strips to heat and cool our 2800 sq/ft home with full basement and paid 0 for electricity and actually got a credit/refund from the electric company when we did our annual true up the first of April. We also were able to sell our Renewable Energy credits this year for around 675.00 each

    If you have enough Solar you can heat, cool, dry cloths and cook for free, even make money.

    Carl

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Quote Originally Posted by carlb23 View Post

    If you have enough Solar you can heat, cool, dry cloths and cook for free, even make money.

    Carl

    Free? Less the capital investment, depreciation (it will have to be replaced some day) and maintenance costs. Which are mainly reduced through tax credits and incentives, which means every income earner in the US helped pay for your "free" electricity.

    Just a thought. I like the concept myself, but NET energy genrated in most climates after you subtract the energy used to manufacturer the panels and mine the raw materials.

    All I'm saying is NOTHING is ever free. Everything is this world has a cost... no matter how indirect.

  9. #9
    Regarding the warranty comments, regardless of the written contract that comes with the product the company is non-responsive to mosts requests we have had on behalf of our customers. In fact, they are Hallowell to court. They simply don't respond. I think they are aware fully of the ticking time bombs installed in the market and want to pretend everything is perfect.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    68,793
    Quote Originally Posted by CurtisALCH View Post
    Regarding the warranty comments,
    Don't post anymore bashing.

    It appears that you may be a disgruntled former employee.

    Don't use this sight for your personal agenda.
    Contractor locator map

    How-to-apply-for-Professional

    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts
    768
    I am interested in the technology but it appears that few have the capital to justify the initial investment based on energy efficiency.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bangor ME
    Posts
    22
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    Don't post anymore bashing.

    It appears that you may be a disgruntled former employee.

    Don't use this sight for your personal agenda.
    Thank you he is a former employee. It did not work out.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Northwest Arkansas via Chicago Area via Straight Up from There on Lake Superior
    Posts
    1,411
    Quote Originally Posted by carlb23 View Post
    ...
    If you have enough Solar you can heat, cool, dry cloths and cook for free, even make money.

    Carl
    But, Carl, you never told us how much your 11.8 kw cost retail and how much the tax payers subsidized.

    We would all love to have zero energy costs, but the 2 you mention cost somebody BIG bucks.

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