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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Central Kentucky
    Posts
    6,247
    There's a good chance it may be the house itself causing you some issues. I've had reverse stack effect be the root of this problem many times in the past.
    Have you set up a Google alert for Carbon Monoxide yet?
    Click here to find out how.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Millsboro, DE
    Posts
    100
    Manuals J & RS require at least two zones in a two story home. Additional zones are required for a room over a garage, sunroom, etc.

    Having said that, I'm able to control my single zone, two story townhouse via summer and winter balancing adjustments. I doubt the typical homeowner would be up for that, however.

    Zone dampers or a second system are the only way to go.

    As to a location for the second floor stat, how about a big "DUH" for this.Name:  02 Stat.jpg
Views: 322
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  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,159
    2 systems is the best solution. Zone control systems are typically oversized for the ductowrk they try to push air through. Using bypass dampers is just a way to compensate for crappy ductwork.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    nw ohio
    Posts
    184
    take 75% or so of your return air at the second floor ceiling.
    problem solved.
    return air from each upstairs room is better but a ceiling return alone will make a huge difference.
    compressors never die; they're always murdered!

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Miami, FL.
    Posts
    422
    Quote Originally Posted by coolcajun View Post
    Flex is ok in smaller systems and IF done correctly. I have one I need to go redo. Single runs and apparently he didn't know you could cut the flex. There is a 25' bag on each run not hung!
    That is there in case an addition is ever done to the house.
    I miss you mom and dad.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    West Chester, PA
    Posts
    511
    I will probably get blasted for this but here goes: as a service tech running 8 - 12 calls a day, it can sometimes be difficult to accurately assess and address issues like this. Of course we should offer dynamic solutions like zoning or something along those lines and be up selling. Lets say that either the customer isn't into spending money or we just aren't inclined to talk with them at length about their problems at the current time (a no, no, I know but it happens). Usually a 2-3 degree difference between floors is present and used to considered 'acceptable'. I don't know if it still is or if that has changed. Maybe you guys can let me know. A lot of home owners want a quick cheap answer and don't want to hear zoning or second system or duct work modifications just to address what they feel is a somewhat minimal concern. Here is what I tend to do in those cases:

    1)the upper floor is warmer (in summer) due to stratification. And usually compounded by poor 2nd floor airflow and more solar exposure and less insulation. This means that if cools off slower and warms up quicker. Homeowners can follow this line of thought.

    2)How long does the unit run? Until the t-stat satisfies. Where is the stat? Usually downstairs dining room. This room usually gets good airflow and has low solar gain. So this rooms probably cools down the quickest and warms up the slowest.

    3)We are catering to an unused room which is not really indicative of the conditions in most of our home. Again this is a line of thought that the home owner can follow.

    4)Close all dampers to the room with the thermostat. This keeps the dining room from cooling so quickly, giving the rest of the rooms more time to cool off. It also pushes more air through the rest of the duct system. Hopefully the other rooms now have a chance to reach a reasonable temp before the stat satisfies (before they probably never came close to the thermostat set point) or even over cool -requiring a longer amount of time for them to warm back up.

    This is a simple fix that I have found address moderate stratification issues (won't help you in a 3 story town home, sorry) and keeps the customer happy (no cost) and you moving onto your next call. Also the explanation is simple can can be understood by a homeowner who usually appreciates you saving them money and explaining something to them that they can actually understand. Don't kill a unit by adding a bunch of static though. A couple of runs to a dining room being closed wont add much static but double check anyway. If it does add static beyond what you want to see, leave the dampers open but close the registers. This will add less static to the system but still reduce airflow to the room.

    Hopefully this makes sense. Don't blast me too hard

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    West Chester, PA
    Posts
    511
    Just a couple of things to add: 1 - If you are on a call specifically for uneven cooling, then you should be taking your time to address the issue. My response was geared toward what I commonly ran into which was a repair that led to a second discussion about uneven temperatures in the home. 2 - Running the fan on circulate will also help

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arnold mo
    Posts
    3,941
    If they have a PSC blower motor, you can sell them an ECM motor, so that they can leave the blower in the low "circulate" mode to better mix the air between floors. These motors use very little energy in "circulate" mode as compared to a PSC motor. The best recommendation would be to advise them to have an energy audit performed by a company that understands Building Science. There are HVAC companies out there that have stepped their game up and know how to take the "whole house" approach to their customers comfort and energy needs. Quite a few of the HVAC professionals on this site have taken this route.
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Moore, Oklahoma, United States
    Posts
    4,159
    Running the blower 24/7 will raise the humidity quite a bit durign the summer in some homes.

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Twin Cities Minnesota
    Posts
    223
    Quote Originally Posted by 54regcab View Post
    Running the blower 24/7 will raise the humidity quite a bit durign the summer in some homes.
    Please explain.

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    West Chester, PA
    Posts
    511
    I think that would depend on the pressure generated inside the house.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,938
    Running the blower 24/7 will raise the humidity quite a bit durign the summer in some homes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicmuffin View Post
    Please explain.
    I believe that extra moisture/humidity is being blown off the wet coil with the fan constantly running. I always advise setting the fan to auto for this reason. If you live in a dry area its probably less important, but if you live in a humid area I think its very important.

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arnold mo
    Posts
    3,941
    The point about the humidity is a good one. New furnaces have controls that shuts the blower off after cooling is off, even if t-stat is calling for constant fan. Older furnaces should have some control that would do the same so as to avoid adding moisture back to the the air. I wonder if there are any t-stats out there that do this?
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

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