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Thread: 5th Ammendement

  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by hearthman View Post
    Well, let's see Roy: if your boss called you in to explain what the heck you've been up to, can you plead the 5th?
    No pleading required your not in court, but you sure don't have to answer either.

    Quote Originally Posted by hearthman View Post

    If a person is under subpoena, then failure to testify can be ruled contempt of court or in this case, of Congress.

    Once she took the fifth she is free from having saying anything, unless of course the congress grants her immunity from prosecution. Then she can be held in contempt if she still refuses.

    You internet law degree must have skipped that point.
    A Diamond is just a piece of coal, that made good under pressure!

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by hearthman View Post
    Well, let's see Roy: if your boss called you in to explain what the heck you've been up to, can you plead the 5th?

    If a person is under subpoena, then failure to testify can be ruled contempt of court or in this case, of Congress.
    http://www.denverpost.com/politics/c...efore-congress

  3. #16
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    I don't know where you're getting your info Hearthman but the wording of the 5th A. is this...

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.[1] Wikipedia

    The only 2 exceptions say nothing about Congress.

  4. #17
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  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaard View Post
    I don't know where you're getting your info Hearthman but the wording of the 5th A. is this...

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.[1] Wikipedia

    The only 2 exceptions say nothing about Congress.
    Chaard, please follow me here... the 5th is not for an inquiry or investigation. It is for criminal charges. Felony type stuff.

    Invoking the 5th.. something one has the right to do so as not to be a witness against themselves, if you lie then you are a perjurer. You are screwed one way or another. You have a right to plead the 5th. I think that is very fair.

    But one cannot simply INVOKE THE FIFTH because they might be asked questions that they do not wish to be asked. A federal servant? Those people need to answer the questions presented by the elected representatives of our people. They cannot invoke the fifth unless it protects them from testifying against themselves on criminal charges. None were made, but now they should.

    And bring up the video of the corrupt failed solar company dudes was silly. Massive corruption involved there.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "I say we just nuke them from space, that is the only way to be sure". Winch from ALIENS, forgot her name.

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  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    Chaard, please follow me here... the 5th is not for an inquiry or investigation. It is for criminal charges. Felony type stuff.
    The fifth can indeed be utilized in congressional investigations. It has been used several times in the past on varying congressional investigations.

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by geerair View Post
    The fifth can indeed be utilized in congressional investigations. It has been used several times in the past on varying congressional investigations.
    That was my point. And the video is evidence of that Nothing more.

    Btw, we haven't even touched on Miranda rights.

  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by geerair View Post
    The fifth can indeed be utilized in congressional investigations. It has been used several times in the past on varying congressional investigations.
    right. to protect oneself from testifying about their criminal activities.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "I say we just nuke them from space, that is the only way to be sure". Winch from ALIENS, forgot her name.

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    My front door is locked. For your personal protection.

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    right. to protect oneself from testifying about their criminal activities.
    Witnesses to crimes routinely remain silent and tell police they do not want to get involved. The police seem powerless against that.

    Giving false information to a peace officer is a crime, but what is the offense for remaining silent whether you are involved or not?

  10. #23
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    Obstruction of justice ???

    I dont see why anyone even needs to plea the 5th to congress..... it isnt a court of law....

    Its a bunch of used car salesmen and carnival sideshow barkers.
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  11. #24
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    Tool Slinger is correct: there must be a "reasonable degree of potential criminality" possible for someone to invoke the 5th. If there are no specific laws to which testimony can self incriminate then there is no protection under the 5th. In other words, just because you get called to testify about your job performance doesn't grant you the protection of the 5th. You have to establish that should the witness give specific testimony that would blatantly incriminate them according to law 123 XYZ, then the 5th may be available. If you cannot connect which laws could be used to indict them on criminal--not civil charges, then the 5th is not available. Now, for a witness to claim the 5th, they may be called by the court to establish which laws they could possibly be accused of violating. This is interesting because this in and of itself tells prosecutors where to look.

    For instance, a witness is called to testify in a murder trial. This is a "whodonit" case. It is pretty clear that a witness who could possibly have had opportunity and motive could slip up and self incriminate. Therefore, they may have the protection of the 5th.

    In the same case, the kid at the store who is merely testifying he saw the defendant on a certain day doing certain things is not in danger of criminal charges, hence he has no protection from the 5th------------unless previous testimony connected him to the defendant as a possible co-conspirator.

    What criminal charges could Lerner be brought up on that her own testimony could be used against her? That is the case. Now, let's say she pleads the 5th, it is rejected and the Congress forces her to testify. Her testimony, it turns out, does indeed tend to self incriminate. Will she get off? Well, if the self incrimination is for a crime that would have reasonably been suspected by the court then any conviction based on her own testimony could easily be overturned. However, if the law she broke was not directly relevant to the initial charges but turns out to be some other unrelated offense, she very well may still sit behind bars. For instance, you try to plead the 5th but the court dismisses your right for the lack of grounds. Then, your own testimony reveals you killed someone or broke some unrelated law. Does your "self-incrimination" get your off the hook? No. This cannot be used as a ploy to avoid prosecution. At least, this is the way a legal mind explained it to me.

  12. #25
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    I'm having a hard time believing were even having this conversation. To not incriminate yourself is so basic, there shouldn't even be a discussion about it.

    Yes I know the lady wasn't accused of a crime, but you all need to understand that this is a political football, and she knows it, they are using her as a sacrificial lamb, and the real question should be, why. She has been told NOT to reveal any higher ups, and she knows the consequences if she does, if its someone high enough, and I don't mean the POTUS, think she will blow their cover, she will be silenced, you can use your imagination as to how.


    Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending her, she is a dirt bag just like so many in our government and the associated entities that run things.

    Anytime your main stream media is reporting on something this momentous, you have to ask who is pulling the strings, for nothing, and I mean nothing of this type, is ever let out, unless someone on top has approved it. All you have to do is look who the owners are, and their connection to other entities, and it will reveal the real agenda.

    If the Boston Martial Law lock down wasn't an eye opener, what will open your eyes ??, when they come for you it will be too late. It was right out of the Nazi playbook, and after seeing it and watching people cheering of how wonderful of a job they did chasing down one lousy wounded little teenager, I now know what my mother was referring to, about how when the situation arouse in Germany, there was little they could do about it, for it was to late. Not to mention today we have technology were Hitler and those Nazi monsters would have given their you know what, to have such powerful tools that this government has today.

    I can assure you that that billion dollar complex out west, wasn't build to combat terrorism alone. Think about it, every communication that is being done, will be saved and scrutinized, and for later perusal if needed.

    No government should EVER have this kind of power.

    Do some critical thinking and....





    WAKE UP


    Roy
    "The perfect Totalitarian State is one where the political bosses, and their army of managers, control a population of slaves, who do not have to be coerced, because they love their servitude"

  13. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian GC View Post
    Witnesses to crimes routinely remain silent and tell police they do not want to get involved. The police seem powerless against that.

    Giving false information to a peace officer is a crime, but what is the offense for remaining silent whether you are involved or not?
    Good question. I googled this answer:

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Can_you_be...on_from_police

    "Obstruction of Justice," or "Impeding a Police Investigation." Corney nailed it.

    I think basically, if you see a shooting, you can be in deep doo for withholding information. But if your buddy was the shooter and the shot fired from your car, you could plead the 5th and tell them you are not talking to anyone but your lawyer.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "I say we just nuke them from space, that is the only way to be sure". Winch from ALIENS, forgot her name.

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    My front door is locked. For your personal protection.

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