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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Portland OR
    Posts
    2,029
    Quote Originally Posted by GT1980 View Post
    better you will Fly with most info by Sky in your customers' eye(s) !

    ehhemm:

    other referencing may want to include about--
    "...tank will provide 100% of a homes domestic water heating and greatly reduce water heating costs if they are using propane or electric and still there are ..." little or no savings over 8 and 9 buck/mcf nGas v 10-12 cent electricity above 106 deg and 6 degree dT in circulating HW on Demand with such as singled-prioritized HW. I mean your total uty bills and transport all inclusive with rates of 5 buck gas and 5 cent electric supply costs 9half the total bills). [radiant was tested alongside an IBC Condensing super CANADIAN boiler (decent controller too) at steady state kw to mcf measured at 105 degrees and 4 gpm per ton GT HW... 104 , the GT saved less than 4%; r410a. THe forced air dropped amp draw by over 10% so the boiler switches to full load then and customer selected Forced Air GT (having high return grills) to become first stage in 20-deg weather and colder on 6600 deg day zone 5.1/2 . Both the 3-staging GT and the variable IBC boiler are on constantly at below 25 deg for warm toesies all winter-

    Hydro-Temp of AR (not Hdelta-HHt), a little before WF in 1981 patented Heat-Reclaiming in cooling mode, so savings are a little more annually averaged then having loop pumps drop out for HW recovery in Cooling at a 100% reclaiming heat of the system, nearly so.
    Then WITHOUT extra valves, runs full condensing as a DeSuperheater as well in Heating; but is programmable to drop out for full heating to a space.
    But Prioritizes HW recovery as well On Demand without H or C.

    Now Energy Star rated 2nd to WF in Highest Speed only, EER 30.8 , V-Star Bristol Compressor, but has 49k output etl tested (both) to WF 46k.
    Blended raw AHRI low-Med speed averaging has WF at 41+ and H-T at 42.+

    And the addition of 100% heat reclaiming in Cooling Simultaneously, loops/well "OFF" gets EER's above , well into the 50's, anyways.

    Kinda like some new Mini's running in mid 47 degree weather or warmer (only) with HW features.

    DeSuperheater?
    Fine if your installing an Energy Star(tm) systemic HVAC+HW for a tax credit or families to ~ 4 or less; and then go 100% On-Demand, I believe.
    Oh:
    Did that HW DeSuperheater/or On-Demand get set up for cleaning each year or two, for customer to vinegar flush?

    please ask:
    Did the 100% HW On-Demand (ODHW) get the HW from the BOTTOM of a single tank install as some OEM depict - and works very well with customer understanding tank blow-downs, and Y-Strainer clearing each year...?
    Umm, once again, what did you just say? Your post is jumbled and makes no sense.
    #1 this is not in a natural gas area so no idea what 9 buck MCF means. Around here propane is $2.75 per gallon
    #2 you keep bring up a desuper heater and EER. THIS IS NOT A DESUPERHEATER SYSTEM. This is a NSW018 water to water ground source heat pump that is JUST for domestic water heating. EER is a cooling rating and has no relation to water heating
    Check out my YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/skyheating1 We have customer testimonials, product reviews and more!
    Like us on FACEBOOK if you like our advice here!

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    NORTHERN
    Posts
    991
    Umm, once again, what did you just > ask.

    how do you arrive at any understanding unfamiliarity?

    I do in refrigeration what has worked in life (over a short half cetury+):

    I test or probe.

    Probing may help you with the pile of info about HW patented and on-demand in Cooling mode, pumps off then.
    and so
    just pick a spot in a paragraph that I should make more grammar for...

    Glad you are trying.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    NORTHERN
    Posts
    991
    Umm, once again, what did you just > ask.

    ~any understanding unfamiliarity?

    I do in refrigeration what has worked in life (over a short half cetury+):

    I test or probe.

    Probing may help you with the pile of info about HW patented and on-demand in Cooling mode, pumps off then.
    and so
    just pick a spot in a paragraph that I should make more grammar for...

    Glad you are trying.


    [[and still there are some savings over a gas tankless water heater too.]]

    came after "and" and appeared nGas since you did not fully represent as Propane a second time... Grammar is tough for me too.

    So nGas in my view of your sentence structure, at a total billing of today where I live at $9/ MCF on my bills and customer where tested IBC boiler radiant to GT radiant at 104 and 106 degrees and 4 gpm per ton... is better to be running the IBC condensing boiler than the GT wearing compressors...

    Ihave so many r22 lost appreciation that I wont go there either, so in 410 there is a limit buck:buck ( dollar to dollar) that we should employ if we care, that nGas has a point of "better".

    Hydronhas higher COP's and yet costs more to operate annually than any lower COP Variable or dual compressor three staging system.

    If you read above of the comments on DeSuperheaters, I speak to them then.
    I do not see where you mention the CLEANING required in eith DHW On-Demand or others also mentioning DeSuperheaters; and it is important they BOTH get cleaned for touting "savings" on-going about ROI's - I have reason to believe.

    yes yes in 1981 i sold the TETCO r12 and r22 blue bombs w:w GT Dom HW Heat Pumps of my mentor David Heart of Powell Ohio, then (COLUMBUS OH)

    nice idea for some apps; really better without GT in restaurants to cooling and dehum needs while cranking out some DHW on Demand.

    Did you know that even though more formally EER is re cooling (to the USA) and in other countries , all is COP?
    And for benchmarking the most eff systems GT by etl and ahri raw data and EnergyStar(tm) Jan 2013, there were only 4 and listed Variable Driven (very much like 34 year old Dual compressor units achieve) GT OEM's?
    And just look at those comparisons in EER ! WOW ! is it not a good thing?

    have you read anything at Hydro-Temp com ?

    can search
    the most efficient geothermal heat pumps ENERGY STAR eer and see what I mean...

    Then in ONE system, not needing a w:w to do the wonders of 100% temperature programmed On-Demand HW heating you can find also the additional and exciting savings of LOOP OFF and (now patents up) HEAT RECOVERING in COOLING MODE as simultaneous heat reclaim to the HW tank running only ONE compressor.

    Since you will see others and in other misguiding green sites discuss this with "extra valves and parts of refrigeration" - truth is "NOT" .
    The HW on Demand in Hydro-Temp is not any different in programmed temp selected by customer or installer, as a SELECTED DESUPERHEATING in of FULL CONDENSING while it is in the heating mode.

    semantics aside, no buyer gets confused when I show the two pictured desuperheating - smaller and 100% instant HW heater, systems, side by side... adn for only 1100 to 1200 additional to just all with a DeSuperheater? including the Bronze 1/6hp circulator ...the customers are in favor over 9/ of 10, and buy the larger Earth Coupled loop REQUIRED (did you show that too?)

    Can you study that and re word so others will understand?

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    NORTHERN
    Posts
    991
    Good night and I like all you post, and your grammar, but do want more than I see omitted

    I am ignorant too, not stupid and certainly as you are not stupid.

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