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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    68,805
    I have noticed the Nest sacrifices comfort for efficiency as the temp swing is about two degrees for cooling which is a little high (and cannot be adjusted). It was uncomfortable at first but I've gotten used to it.
    So what your saying is if you had bought a cheap Lux thermostat that has a 2 degree swing. And programmed it for set backs. You would be saving just as much, still be less comfortable. But have more money in the bank.


    PS: Your area had less cooling degree days in August 2012 then it did in August 2011. Only 4% less, but that is part of your savings.
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  2. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by beenthere View Post
    So what your saying is if you had bought a cheap Lux thermostat that has a 2 degree swing. And programmed it for set backs. You would be saving just as much, still be less comfortable. But have more money in the bank.


    PS: Your area had less cooling degree days in August 2012 then it did in August 2011. Only 4% less, but that is part of your savings.
    True, but a Lux is not nearly as cool looking or has the ability to be controlled over the internet.

    If I could change anything about the Nest it would be the temp swing, but I think that's where one of the biggest energy savings comes from since it has the A/C cycle less often and it also cycles the A/C for at least 5 minutes.

  3. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arnold mo
    Posts
    3,978
    "I have noticed the Nest sacrifices comfort for efficiency...".

    That is why I hate it. You can't fix a home's bad envelope with a t-stat, and the stat should come with that disclaimer.
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Quote Originally Posted by tipsrfine View Post
    "I have noticed the Nest sacrifices comfort for efficiency...".

    That is why I hate it. You can't fix a home's bad envelope with a t-stat, and the stat should come with that disclaimer.
    ... you should also add "it can't fix the chronic problem if oversizing by many contractors throughout the industry." As I mentoend before, with a propberly sized system in most homes, the NEST would be pointless. You can;t swing the temprature, if you don't have reserve capacity.

    Ironically, there's probably more benefit for NEST in light commercial than residential. Especailyl with it's ability to remotely monitor temperatures. A poor man's BAS.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,915
    Quote Originally Posted by motoguy128 View Post
    Ironically, there's probably more benefit for NEST in light commercial than residential. Especailyl with it's ability to remotely monitor temperatures. A poor man's BAS.
    There are less expensive thermostats you can do that with, that are more capable, and more reliable.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Seattle WA
    Posts
    1,245
    Quote Originally Posted by littlegreeny View Post
    I'm not lying about my energy savings. It's made a big difference as I live in a loft on the 6th floor with 10 foot windows which face west. August 2011 I used 1315 kWh and this last August (after the Nest was installed) I used 950 kWh.

    I previously had a Honeywell which I never programmed. I have noticed the Nest sacrifices comfort for efficiency as the temp swing is about two degrees for cooling which is a little high (and cannot be adjusted). It was uncomfortable at first but I've gotten used to it. All my savings is during the summer as my biggest heating bill has been $30/month. I love how I can control it from anywhere and they send me an energy report every month. They keep making improvements to the software which is a big plus. You can now program the fan to run during certain times and you can turn on a dehumidify function (by over-cooling).
    Going from non programmable to Nest is going to make the Nest seem like the revelation everyone other than people who know about this stuff thinks it is. I wanna be the master of my own heating system, I don't need some Apple-esque product assuming I'm too dumb to figure out a thermostat. Plus like everyone is saying, they are a pain in the a$$ to troubleshoot. They even have a tech industry style system for technical support that consists of trouble shooters that have never touched an HVAC control system sitting in a cubicle going through a flow chart or GUI to figure out your issue. Next thing you know Nest will forward to a call center in India.
    America; first we fight for our freedom,
    then we make laws to take it away.

    -Alfred E Newman

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    So Cal
    Posts
    3,618
    How can you compare a thermostat you never bothered setting up a program to a Nest?
    You went from a light switch to a programmable thermostat. THAT'S your savings right there.
    You would have seen the same savings if you took the time to set up your old stat, and had another $250.00 in your pocket!

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arnold mo
    Posts
    3,978
    My understanding of the Nest is that it is not just a programmable t-stat, it achieves it's energy savings by keeping the system Off as long as it can. This is why the homeowner has noticed a decline in comfort. The stat will just let him/her sit there and be uncomfortable to achieve the energy savings. What a stupid approach to energy savings. (Meaning stupid Nest, not stupid OP).
    An answer without a question is meaningless.
    Information without understanding is useless.
    You can lead a horse to water............
    http://www.mohomeenergyaudits.com

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    16,122
    Quote Originally Posted by tipsrfine View Post
    My understanding of the Nest is that it is not just a programmable t-stat, it achieves it's energy savings by keeping the system Off as long as it can. This is why the homeowner has noticed a decline in comfort. The stat will just let him/her sit there and be uncomfortable to achieve the energy savings. What a stupid approach to energy savings. (Meaning stupid Nest, not stupid OP).
    You touched on a point there I have to always tell my customers that want to purchase new equipment. I get this question many times, Bill, will we see a lot of difference in our energy savings, my answer is, well number one, you're buying comfort, and number two, it depends on who is in control of the stat. so if they want to really see an energy savings, maybe I should tell them to install a NEST.
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    4,770
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Bill View Post
    You touched on a point there I have to always tell my customers that want to purchase new equipment. I get this question many times, Bill, will we see a lot of difference in our energy savings, my answer is, well number one, you're buying comfort, and number two, it depends on who is in control of the stat. so if they want to really see an energy savings, maybe I should tell them to install a NEST.
    And to the comfort vs economy point, the touchscreen Honeywell stats can be set for either. This would accomplish about the same savings with more compatibility.
    The Food Stamp Program, administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture, is proud to be distributing the greatest amount of free meals and stamps EVER.
    Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the U.S. Department of the Interior, asks us to "Please Do Not Feed the Animals". Their stated reason for this policy "... the animals become dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves."
    from an excerpt by Paul Jacob in Sun City, AZ

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    I've never been dissappointed so far putting in smaller equipment with a higher SEER rating. Comfort and savings at the same time. Doesn't really matter what I had for a thermostat.

    If you don't mind trading comfort for savings, when you replace your system, don't bother sizing it, just take whatever size equipment you have now, divide it by 2 and round down. I gurantee it will use less energy.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Houston,Tx.
    Posts
    16,122
    Quote Originally Posted by motoguy128 View Post
    I've never been disappointed so far putting in smaller equipment with a higher SEER rating. Comfort and savings at the same time.
    Everyone is different, I will never sell savings again, why? unless you know your customer good enough to know what their expectations are, and most of us don't, trust me! you will get into trouble someday. I did see you said "so far".
    __________________________________________________ _______________________
    “Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards". - Vernon Law

    "Never let success go to your head, and never let failure go to your heart". - Unknown

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    196

    Problem with Nest Thermostats

    I found a condenser short cycling.
    It had no low pressure cutout.
    I checked inside and found a 2 zone system controlled by a Honeywell HZ-311 zone controller and it was going insane.
    Customer said one of his two new t-stats needed batteries.
    Could not find troubleshooting documentation on the controller but
    I did discover the t-stats had no common wire connected.
    I quoted a new controller and connecting the stats to the common using spare wires in the harness.
    Then I found a webpage Decribing a Nest problem.
    The Nest uses a built-in, permanent, rechargeable battery that automatically draws current from the system to charge itself. It claims to be compatible with systems that have this wiring arrangement even if they lack the C wire.
    The problem arises when the Nest needs to charge itself and neither the heat nor air conditioning has turned on in a while, like on a mild day. Without a C circuit to take power from, it can only charge itself from running the system.
    So it pulses the R-W heat circuit in short bursts to get power.
    Maybe some systems are slow to respond to the call for heat, so this doesn’t result in anything noticeable. But my boiler reacts instantly, and it sounds like it’s really not enjoying this technique:
    http://www.marco.org/2011/12/17/nest...without-c-wire
    This is what happens when you don't let HVAC techs into the loop.
    Economy - Quality - Speed <---- pick two

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