Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 13 of 19
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Gilbert, Arizona, United States
    Posts
    45

    Was R12 ever used in residential HVAC systems?

    I have been reading some conflicting information concerning the use of R12 in residential HVAC systems. Some sites say that R12 was used in residential HVAC systems prior to the introduction of R22, while others state that R12 was used exclusively for automotive HVAC systems. Which is it?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,376
    There were some residential systems that used 12, but that was a loonnnggg time ago. Back when having central air in a house was high end livin'!
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,915
    R-12 was used in many residential systems, even for a while after R-22 was available.
    I haven't seen one in a long time, but 15-20 years ago I was still occasionally running into them when I was working in older parts of Fort Worth, Texas.
    Most of them were Westinghouse systems from the late 40's and early 50's.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Caledonia WI
    Posts
    882
    All the ones I dealt with had water cooled condensers. The last one I worked on was about five years ago (they had me install a setback thermostat on it. Then a year later the evaporator coil started leaking). Let's see the new units go that long before the refrigerant leaks start.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX
    Posts
    11,376
    Quote Originally Posted by billg View Post
    All the ones I dealt with had water cooled condensers..
    As a kid, I first learned what a cooling tower was, and what it was for, by the tall natural draft redwood tower in my friend's backyard in Dallas, TX. As I got older and into HVAC, I asked my HVAC mentor about those systems, and why I did not see more of them. He replied what any seasoned tech of his day might say; "homeowners don't take care of them". And so it continues in our time, with systems much easier to maintain than those.
    • Electricity makes refrigeration happen.
    • Refrigeration makes the HVAC psychrometric process happen.
    • HVAC pyschrometrics is what makes indoor human comfort happen...IF the ducts AND the building envelope cooperate.


    A building is NOT beautiful unless it is also comfortable.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    3,714
    I can remember just 1 R2 commercial AC system I think the place started out as a cafeteria. Portlands first. This was in the 50's, May have been a Westinghouse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Jazz View Post
    I have been reading some conflicting information concerning the use of R12 in residential HVAC systems. Some sites say that R12 was used in residential HVAC systems prior to the introduction of R22, while others state that R12 was used exclusively for automotive HVAC systems. Which is it?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,915
    Quote Originally Posted by Shophound View Post
    As a kid, I first learned what a cooling tower was, and what it was for, by the tall natural draft redwood tower in my friend's backyard in Dallas, TX. As I got older and into HVAC, I asked my HVAC mentor about those systems, and why I did not see more of them. He replied what any seasoned tech of his day might say; "homeowners don't take care of them". And so it continues in our time, with systems much easier to maintain than those.
    Yeap, all of the old Carrier residential water cooled units I've seen had long since had the cooling tower removed, and an air cooled condenser installed.
    Most of those were R-500 systems.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,819
    R 12 was used in many attempted residental central air systems but most R12 was used in the commercial A/C market. And this was due to the fact that "central air" was a rich persons item for a home back then. And most compressors were open shaft belt drive compressors also requiring a water cooled condensor -- a throw off of the commerical A/C market.

    Then a new item hit the residential/light commercial market called a "sealed" compressor. At the same time the pricing and installation on existing residental furnaces became afforadable and economical to some of the average home owners. The air cooled condensor soon followed along with the sealed compressor and the "new" and expensive refrigerant 22 specifically designed for the residential market.

    People in hot and humid areas flocked to get A/C in their homes installed in their existing heating systems. This created a secondary market of two speed fan motors which were needed to properly move the heavy cool air through out the existing inadequate duct work.

    And the rest is history. BTW R12 was a replacement refrigerant in the refrigeration field for...what's it called...the sulfer smelling refrigerant. One of the old guys will name it in a few.............

    R12 never did really catch on to the residental market widely just due to the timing of new compressors, afforadability of "central air" and the invention of R22 almost all at the same time.
    "The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers it can bribe the public with the public's own money.
    - Alexis de Toqueville, 1835

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    North Dakota
    Posts
    518
    Yes I also have seen a number of a/c systems with r-12 also you cant forget the the trusty window shaker wich were pretty much all 12 in the not so distant past

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Central Indiana
    Posts
    617
    Most of the R-12 systems I have seen were commercial refrigeration systems. We have some old equipment in the shop that was designed for R-12 and never installed. Like 1940s and 50s vintage.
    The only true knowledge is the pursuit of knowledge

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    3,714
    Sulfer Dioxide. It was my understanding that R12 was used up by the war effort and that is why a lot of refrigerators built in the 40's had sulfer dioxide. Also heating R12 made mustard gas. Not sure if that was it only used during the war, submarines must have needed cooling. I think Dupont was the original patent holder, and called it freon 12. As everyone knows freon is no longer a proper term. Still it is used a lot.


    Quote Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
    R 12 was used in many attempted residental central air systems but most R12 was used in the commercial A/C market. And this was due to the fact that "central air" was a rich persons item for a home back then. And most compressors were open shaft belt drive compressors also requiring a water cooled condensor -- a throw off of the commerical A/C market.

    Then a new item hit the residential/light commercial market called a "sealed" compressor. At the same time the pricing and installation on existing residental furnaces became afforadable and economical to some of the average home owners. The air cooled condensor soon followed along with the sealed compressor and the "new" and expensive refrigerant 22 specifically designed for the residential market.

    People in hot and humid areas flocked to get A/C in their homes installed in their existing heating systems. This created a secondary market of two speed fan motors which were needed to properly move the heavy cool air through out the existing inadequate duct work.

    And the rest is history. BTW R12 was a replacement refrigerant in the refrigeration field for...what's it called...the sulfer smelling refrigerant. One of the old guys will name it in a few.............

    R12 never did really catch on to the residental market widely just due to the timing of new compressors, afforadability of "central air" and the invention of R22 almost all at the same time.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,608
    Then there's Carene-7!

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    1,217
    Quote Originally Posted by lytning View Post
    Sulfer Dioxide. It was my understanding that R12 was used up by the war effort and that is why a lot of refrigerators built in the 40's had sulfer dioxide. Also heating R12 made mustard gas. Not sure if that was it only used during the war, submarines must have needed cooling. I think Dupont was the original patent holder, and called it freon 12. As everyone knows freon is no longer a proper term. Still it is used a lot.
    I hate when people call refrigerant, freon... Not sure why, I just do.

    Never seen a R12 ac unit... But still have a bunch of med temp cases runing with r12.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event