03-06-2007, 12:45 PM
mushroom...hehe...with a cup of recycled Dave water please! lol
03-06-2007, 08:41 PM
Originally Posted by Carnak
That statement is also good signature line material.
You might want to copyright it for your protection.
03-06-2007, 08:50 PM
Yep, that's a real basic definition for sure.
Originally Posted by johnl
Another characteristic of pyramids is that they focus their compensation on recruiting "distributors" rather than selling a product. Also, in pyramid schemes the people recruited by the "top dude" can never surpass him in status or earnings.
These & similar schemes are illegal.
Now, MLM is different. A "distributor" is compensated for the product or service he sells not for those he has recruited. A distributor can surpass his/her host in status & earnings if he/she works hard enough.
See the difference yet, genius?
03-06-2007, 08:52 PM
o-k fine.....how about we call it.............a cult?
03-06-2007, 08:53 PM
hehehe dont get yer panties in a bunch im just kidding.
03-06-2007, 09:04 PM
I will look at my tube of toofpaste when I brush my teeth tomorrow morning at the corner general store.
Originally Posted by NHMoldInspector
I save water this way.
03-06-2007, 10:44 PM
It will say sodium fluoride .15%
03-07-2007, 12:09 AM
The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.
03-07-2007, 06:23 PM
No, it's not a cult. But we do all live on a huge plot of land, give a certain percentage of our earnings to our upline IMD so he can pay the motgage &, yes, we do hand out pamphlets & flowers to people at the airport.
Originally Posted by johnl
03-07-2007, 07:32 PM
Ya, definitly a cult. We make money by helping others make money....and all it cost was my firstborn! But I gave the second as a good will offering. I plan on having the 3rd one melted down and made into a Fresh Air, so he will have done something meaningful with his life....lol *Sarchastic*
It is amazing how some companies have tarnished the image of multilevel marketing. When done correctly it just creates a system where the more successful you help your downline to become, the more successful you become...wow, that sounds bad...wealth through helping others succeed. Granted the "signup club" mlm's are useless because very few make any money. If you have good products that aren't extremely overpriced everyone makes out....provided people aren't lazy and treat it like a real business. It really is no different then a McDonalds franchise...except the people in the middle benefit too and not just the top and the retail. You can't by a McDonalds burger from Wendys because MCD Corperate are the sole distributer of that specific blend of kangaroo...hehe...it is the same with us. You don't see their burgers sold at Shaws...same concept, exclusivity.
03-14-2007, 06:34 PM
Do you people use cell phones, remote controls, and other voodoo objects?
Tupperware? Sprint? Mary Kay? Any other Direct Sales items?
EcoQuest is a member of the direct sales industry, and you are right, there are reasons why you probably will never see some of their products in a distributor. By the same reasoning, the cheapest filter products around ARE found in a distributor - especially commodity products.
Reading what you people are writing certainly tells me that you have not researched Photocatalytic Oxidation and Advanced Photocatalytic Oxidation processes. I'd be suprised if you are wearing hats when you go outside - after all, you can't see radiation that causes skin cancer years later!
The standard Fresh Air unit uses multiple technologies - and is useful in some applications. Does a doctor prescribe the same remedy every time they see someone that is sick?
Does photocatalytic oxidation work? Absolutely! I'll be happy to send anyone that inquires a list of web site links and articles that demonstrate it works. Of course, I did most of my research 3 years ago, and don't bother updating it.
Does EcoQuest's photocatalytic oxidation technology work? Yes.
Why? Proprietary designs, including using a proprietary UV bulb. UV bulbs lose their effectiveness from a build-up of deposits on the inside of the glass. Their UV bulbs were engineered to have an interior coating on the glass that reduces build-up. Read up on Titanium Dioxide and its nano properties.
There are different grades of RCI cells, including ones designed to reduce ozone output. If you are in a high VOC environment, adding ozone to the photocatalytic oxidation reaction increases the neutralization level of many VOCs by an order of magnitude (EPA results - look up their Handbook on Advanced Oxidation.)
Why can't you buy Mary Kay in a store? How about Avon? Why can't you buy hundreds of other direct sale products in a store? Simple. That is their marketing model and they don't want to change it. The same is true for EcoQuest. Making a generic statement that the products must be bad if they are not sold in the store is just plain stupid.
That is not to say that EcoQuest dealers don't say stupid things, after all, in most cases they are small business owners trying to convince eskimos that they need ice, or people that they need to live in a healthier environment. Gee, maybe global warming does exist - although I have given up trying to convince some people. Same way with breathing - no way I'm going to try and convince you that there are better ways to do things!
Trane, Carrier, Genesis Air, and other companies may have approached RGF and EcoQuest about using their proprietary technologies - we don't know. That does not mean that these companies are not putting photocatalytic oxidation systems into HVAC applications! They are either acquiring the technology or developing it in house!
The HVAC business usually deals with trying to heat, cool, and filter - and I've found that most people don't have a clue when it comes to ultrafine particles, viruses, and microbials such as mold and bacteria, as well as volatile organic compounds. It is all "cheap, cheap, cheap" - sounds like a bunch of canaries, which some of you might remember were used in coal mines . . .
EcoQuest controls their brand. That doesn't mean that they control forums such as this one, and the occasional enthusiastic poster. If you have an established customer base that you want to consider offering something more to than just heating and cooling, their products are an option. Don't look to EcoQuest as a way to get rich - after all, this whole discussion thread shows how a few vocal voices that have neither purchased or experienced the products can throw stones without any hesitation!
If you are in San Diego, CA and want to examine their products on a first hand basis, let me know. I'm not hard to find!
Best Wishes for Healthy Life - Kevin
03-14-2007, 07:59 PM
Please post your links here for us all to see.
Also would you post any info as to the use of PCO used by NASA? All I can find is that PCO was used to remove ethylene gas to help germinate wheat seeds on the space station... an experiment. It had nothing to do with cleaning the air in the space station.
I checked the EPA web for PCO and all I can find is it being used to treat water. If you have a link about the treatment of air I would be very interested.
There was also a test of PCO technology for use in airplanes. The test found that there was incomplete oxidation of certain compounds resulting in the formation of formaldehyde... not good! If these units worked we would see alot more commercial applications. Gullable residential consumers can be sold just about anything.
While these devices may kill microbes and bacteria there seems to be some important information being left out. As to there effectiveness in the real world, I think that has yet to be proven. Ozone is effective also, but it's not good for people to breath.
I think we all need up to date and accurate information before we buy into
these products, I do anyway.
I did come across one product that looked interesting but it was several thousand dollars and has 40 uv lights and seemed to move the air very slow to produce its results, not a small table top unit. This product also had allot of research and studies to validate its use. I intend to look into them further. They do state that the bulbs need to be changed yearly, a very expesive device indeed.
Source control, ventilation and filtration work.
03-14-2007, 08:27 PM
To support mbarson's point go to Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratories and find LBNL-59631. This is a summary showing the results of a study of PCO's and various VOC's at typical office concentrations. it found a significant increase in formaldehyde - they do not recommend the technology.
Then go to www.epa.gov/iaq/ciaq and search for the meeting minutes from February 7, 2007. This is the main committee in the US government on IAQ. it includes NASA, EPA, DOE, CPSC, etc.. The report states that the formaldehyde production issue is such a concern that "scrubbers" are being investigated to deal with this issue. Sodium permanganate seems to be the leading candidate at this time.
Bottom line is this is a promising technology but there are concerns. It is not a panacea for indoor air.