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  1. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHMoldInspector View Post
    I admit I don't know everything but you all should keep in mind, neither do you.
    Nothoing like an MLM'er getting on the most elite site in the HVAC/R industry and telling us we do not know what we are doing.

    ROFLMAO

    Hey, go see if you can perform a stand-up routine on one of the late night shows and let us know when it will air because you definately have me in stiches over here.
    Last edited by MadeinUSA; 03-05-2007 at 03:43 PM.

  2. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHMoldInspector View Post
    $10. fixes? I don't do dope anymore a$$hole! And I make far more then $10 off each sale...closer to what you make in a day! Provided you aren't somebodies helper for $10/hr.
    Actually, I am the shop floor sweeper, and next week I am up for my 90 day review where I will be promoted to bathroom janitor.

    They let me play on the computer during slow periods to increase my multi-tasking skills.

    One day I will be President.

  3. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHMoldInspector View Post
    You define a scam by a product whose testing has a large enough burden of proof to keep them out of court. That kinda sounds like you are saying if it is even remotely promising it looks bad. No wonder you are a filter guy!
    You are no different than the pharmaceutical companies who design medicines to mask the result of a problem so you can make money instead of designing a “solution” to solve the problem. You both are corrupt.

  4. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHMoldInspector View Post
    $10. fixes? I don't do dope anymore a$$hole! And I make far more then $10 off each sale...closer to what you make in a day! Provided you aren't somebodies helper for $10/hr.

    Graduated to selling better fixes I guess.

  5. #96
    A mask vs soultion. Ok, well lets do a little comparison. Despite the fact that most of our home placements for people that don't have HVAC systems.

    Filters only catch particles .03 microns or larger, though Breatheasy said they will catch some .01 that encompasses pollen and dust and viruses maybe too (I don't know?) You still have submicron patricles, some which don't even move with the air, so what about those. Initially filters were meant to keep the equipment clean right? So in the case with some of the peoples threads here they have to change the filters constantly for it to work right. So that means people will be coming to you to buy filters and change them what, 4x a yr, six in some places? One woman specifically was talking only a few months. And what about all the live bacteria and viruses that got caught on the filter, all that stuff is going all over the place when you pull it out. The RCI air going through the filter would kill everything in it, for a safer change.

    That doesn't sound like a "solution" that is a bandaid that lost its glue when it got dirty. So meanwhile your "solution" is causing people to be exposed to mycotoxins from mold and everything else in the air. So that isn't a solution either.

    Now what I have reasoned from all of these last 4-5 threads is that since ionization clumps submicron particles (even if not enough for gravity to pull them out) they would become heavy enough to get sucked into the system and have your filter catch it. So there, the combination of ionization and a good filter would probable be a great pair, then add RCI to it and now you are germ free, mycotoxin free and pretty much particle free too.

    As far as i'm concerned, alone it does good! If you heard how loud my wife snored before I started using it. I would have to elbow her so she would wake up in hopes of falling asleep before she started snoring again...hehe She still snores a little but not bad now. Plus you could see the dust in the air floating through the sunlight and there is nothing floating above the projection on the floor.

    But I still say it is perfectly safe. Since it's main oxidiser is H202 and according to the Clinical Guide To Pharmacology it is harmless and cannot enter into the body, which is why we pour it on cuts and gargle with it.
    Last edited by NHMoldInspector; 03-05-2007 at 04:15 PM.

  6. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by NHMoldInspector View Post
    according to the Clinical Guide To Pharmacology it is harmless and cannot enter into the body, which is why we pour it on cuts and gargle with it.
    They said Fluorine was good for preventing cavities too and have been putting it in our water and in toothpaste for decades, but it is also one of the most toxic byproducts known to man we find out years later.

    Gees, and we were told it was safe for us yet we have all these additional health issues becoming more prevalent in society.

    All you gullible MLM’ers will believe anything because the dollar sign drives you instead of reason.

    You will never learn this industry and what the real solutions are because you are to fixated on selling band aides

  7. #98
    you mean fluoride? Someone as smart as you should know the difference. Fluoride is the most powerful of common oxidisers 2.23x stronger than bleach. They are still using it everywhere and I can say that for the 5 yrs I spent in places without fluoride I kept getting cavities even though I brushed my teeth. I had a black dot on a molar ever since I was about 8 and withing 9 months of not having treated water that tooth's spot got significantly larger and broke...so I think I will take my chances on it.

    Flourine was first isolated in Russia by Moissan. It is obtained by hydrolysis of Hydrogen Flouride, using anhydrous Potassium Flouride as a catalyst.
    Flourine is so dangerous that it must be stored in steel containers, and even then it reacts with the steel. Fortunately the layer of flouride that is formed is unreactive, and prevents it from reacting further.
    Flourine is found naturally in the earth's crust as cryolite; Na3 AlF6, flourite; CaF2and flourapatite; 3Ca3(PO4) 2Ca(FCl)2. Around 4 million metric tonnes of flourine are produced per year, worth approx. $300,000,000.


    Properties.

    Flourine is the most reactive element in the world. It reacts with absolutely everything (except for nitrogen, oxygen and some of the lighter noble gases), very often explosively. Flourine attacks and breaks down most organic comounds which burn in it's pale yellow gas.
    Chemical synthesis of Flourine is very difficult as compounds containing it will rarely decompose.
    The F-F bond in the free-state flourine gas is very weak as flourine is very small, yet very electronegative. It is this weak bond that is responsible for Fourine's destructive nature. The bond is weaker than the other halogen diatomic bonds as, because Flourine is so small, it's lone pairs are pushed together and become repelled.


    Uses

    Despite blowing a lot of things up, Flourine is still useful. It is used as hydroflouric acid in aluminium smelting and steel production, and Cryolite (a naturally accuring Flourine source) is used in Aluminium manufacture. Silicoflouride salts are used mainly in water flouridation and laundry detergents.
    Without flourine, you'd have no recyclable cans, no cars chassis', your clothes would be filthy, and water wouldn't be safe to drink.
    You'd be dead.


    hmm, that would be an obvious concern...hahahaha! blow the cavity right out of your face only to have a cavity in your head..:P
    Last edited by NHMoldInspector; 03-05-2007 at 05:03 PM.

  8. #99
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    Who let MadeinUSA out of ARP?
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  9. #100
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    Despite not having fluoridated water for about half of my life, I have only had 3 small cavities in 38 years, all found and fixed 3 years ago, after a good solid 15 years of fluoridated water. It was my first visit to a dentist in 19 years.

    I go twice a year for cleaning now. The "cleaning" consists of about 10-15 minutes of her poking around and scraping every now and again, then polishing, yet I have never flossed, don't really brush as often as I should, usually just once a day.
    My dental hygienist said she hates people like me. I don't take care of my teeth anything like I'm supposed to, yet my teeth are in great shape, and I don't get plaque or cavities. She does everything she is supposed to do, and more, but has had to have a cavity filled on just about every tooth, lol.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  10. #101
    OK, let's get beyond the name calling and focus on the issues. After all, as someone said this is the premier HVAC site on the Web. That is why I participate. I learn something every day.

    I hate to have to review things but all filters pull out particles in all size ranges. It is just that the efficiency varies by the composition of the filter. For example, a throwaway fiberglass filter pulls out particles at the 0.01 micron level. It is just that the percentage of efficiency is very low. To verify this just go the University of Cincinnati mentioned above and you will see that the MERV 8 filter pulled out particles at the lowest particle size in the tests.

    Secondly, the ozone levels produced by your machines in the ionization mode are totally unacceptable. To go from 0 ppb to 50 ppb in a 25 cubic meter chamber in 35 minutes means that you are producing a significant level of ozone. In a recent study done at the University of Syracuse and the University of Chicago they tested the Ionic Breeze which produces about 2.2 milligrams per hour of ozone in a 25 cubic meter chamber. The level of ozone in the chamber was 25 ppb after 30 minutes and 45 ppb after one hour. After 6 hours it was 175 ppb. The U of C tests you site showed ozone levels from the Ecoquest Fresh Air machine to be at 50 ppb in 35 minutes in the same size chamber. One cannot know for sure without testing but given this data one would assume that the ozone production of your machines would exceed 2.2 millligrams per hour which would indicate that in the same test chamber the levels for the Ecoquest machine would exceed 175 ppb. And don't give me this stuff that ozone from your machine is different. Ozone is Ozone. It has the same makeup - O3 - no matter what the source.

    Let's talk a little about this coagulation theory. What you are saying is that the Ecoquest Fresh Air machine produces negative ions which attach to particles and make them coagulate so that they reach a mass that they will fall out of the air. This is totally false. Let's look at magnetism. When you have two magnets and you put the negative sides against each other what happens? Do they attract or do they repel each other? Of course, they repel each other. Coagulation with negative ions does not happen.

    In fact what happens is that as particles become larger the effect of ionization decreases. You can see this again in the U of C study. As the particles increase in size the effect of the relatively small charged particles decreases. Picture an automobile. A magnet will be attracted to an automobile. But will the magnet affect the direction of the automobile? No. It will simply attach and go on for the ride. This example might seem extreme but when you consider the masses of the particles and the ions involved it is not out of line.

    Now let's talk about this statement that you cannot push all of the air in a house or commercial building through a filter. Again totally false. The air in a house is a combination of gasses and particles. The gasses move freely and seek to establish equilibrium. They do not stay in one place. For us in the HVAC business who deal with air pressure and air flows on a constant basis this does not need explanation. The large particles will settle out of the air fairly quickly. The small particles almost act like gasses. They move freely in the air and can move rather quickly. For example, I had someone light a cigarette in the far end of our offices. Before lighting the cigarette the particle count on the other end of the offices was 1,200,000 particles over 0.3 microns per cubic foot. Within two minutes of lighting the cigarette the particle count 60 feet away was 1,800,000. Particles do not hide in corners. They mix with the rest of the air and eventually go through the HVAC system and thus through the filter.

    But the most important point and the real lesson for everyone in HVAC today is the way Ecoquest takes "a truth" and makes it into "the truth." You cannot see indoor air. You do not really know what is there unless someone has the instruments to measure what is going on. So this is the perfect environment to exagerate and make unfounded claims. Most of the time these claims have at least an element of truth. But when they are examined more closely they are truly misleading and deceptive. For example, let's take this U of Cincinnati study. One of the findings was that in a 3'X4'X8' chamber with the Fresh Air device running full blast you would neutralize virus and bacteria within 10 minutes. Remember the ozone level exceeded 50 ppb in a little over 5 minutes. Interesting, and I suppose if you were able to isolate those pesky viruses and bacteria for 10 minutes in the same place in this 3'X4'X8' chamber you might have some value. but the conclusion is that the device neutralizes bacteria and viruses. And it covers up to 3,000 square feet. There is absolutely no basis to make this claim. Yet, as we have seen here that is exactly the party line.

    Ecoquest is not the only company using this logic. And that brings me back to my mantra - "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."

  11. #102
    .01 efficiency is low...so basically that means it doesn't do a good job on or in other words is ineffective against.

    Ok it went from .006-.05ppm in 35 min...What is the machine rated for use in? An area over 250 sq ft! So if you use it in the smaller room that is going against manufacturer specifications, right? But the report also stated that in a room of 100m3 the level remained below .05 ppm when run continuosly. I thought you said you reviewed this? It also said that some units, other than the one tested (Ecoquest Fresh Air) exceeded healthy levels of ozone.

    It is also a well known fact that ozone breaks down in most cases under an hour and some times as quickly as 10 minutes.

    Ions? The majority of indoor air is charged with positive ions, so negative and positive attract. I thought you were smart enough to see that in a room of positive ions when negative are introduced it causes clumping. The magnet example is a good one, negative and positive attract with a violent force. Thank you for validating the point. In the first hour the reducftion was by 25 and the 250 in the second hour, that really looks like it is slowing down, actually that show that it is speeding up as the particles get larger.

    Of course the cigarette smoke spread (chaos theory). The same wil cause the mixing to continue and insure that not all of the particles ever make their way into the filter. Give it a break, tyou are invalidating your own point by what you are using to justify it.

    "EQ takes a "truth"- Thank you for admitting that ....17 pages later
    It's been fun.
    Last edited by NHMoldInspector; 03-06-2007 at 12:26 AM.

  12. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    Who let MadeinUSA out of ARP?
    Yeah, I snuck out of the asylum.

    I had to get some fresh air, hence the reason I am in this forum.

  13. #104
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    My experience with anyone who claims to be a mold professional is you can't put three of them in a room and get them to agree on what kind of pizza to order.

    NASA can recycle urine, but I would rather drink fresh water myself.
    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

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