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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    67

    r 22 replacement

    1) I'm looking to see what you guys are using for a direct replacement for R-22. no oil change, maybe a filter, maybe not.

    2) Am I right to assume that the only reason we don't mix refrigerants is because the EPA said not to?

    3) What happens if we do mix it?
    Thanks
    Ahh-Cool

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    McQueeney, Texas
    Posts
    3,822
    So far, I replace a 5 ton rooftop compressor and changed it to M099 with good results.

    If you change a system over, you must change the driers and rubber seals as in the valve cores.

    There's no problem with POE oil return and M099 (R438a) works with mineral oil, but you should add 20% POE to make sure there is sufficient oil return.

    I saw a 3 ton system that was tagged M029 (R422d) (Next door unit I wasn't working on). This is a low/med temp freon, but some seem to be using it on residential systems.

    The 5%-10% loss in capacity may be an issue if the system is borderline, but doesn't seem to be posing a problem yet.

    I just hope everyone is tagging the systems, but I have an idea the terms "Drop in" and "Topping off" is going to cause problems here.

    Even the term "Drop in" is not correct. You still must make some altercations in some instances. The old R22 must be removed, driers changed and seals, and possibly add POE oil. And it is mentioned a possible TXV adjustment in some cases.

    "Topping off" means adding the same refrigerant to the system you have changed it over to if it runs low due to a leak.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    67
    so, what happens if someone replaces r-22 with one of the other ones and doesn't mark it. I come along and put in r-22?
    anybody use 422? it's on sale locally for $189.
    how do you guys feel about 422?
    Nu22 is on sale for $230, does it really matter which one or should we be going for price
    Ahh-Cool

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,953
    Quote Originally Posted by AHH-COOL View Post
    so, what happens if someone replaces r-22 with one of the other ones and doesn't mark it. I come along and put in r-22?
    anybody use 422? it's on sale locally for $189.
    how do you guys feel about 422?
    Nu22 is on sale for $230, does it really matter which one or should we be going for price
    Ahh-Cool
    It will probably be years before we really know the answer to many of these type of questions. As of now everyone you ask has a different opinion.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Anderson, South Carolina, United States
    Posts
    6,806
    We've used 421a on 2 dry charged unit changouts with no problems.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    McQueeney, Texas
    Posts
    3,822
    I hope they don't come up with anymore R22 replacements- I'm not carrying 10 different jugs of freon on the truck.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    67
    I was just in a seminar with Bristol and they said that by 2015 410A will be replaced with they think R-32

    he also said they had burnt bearings with MO99. He said that since they changed to poe they haven't had any problems

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Peoria, IL
    Posts
    2,149
    Your telling us, r410a is going away already?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,086
    I hope they don't come up with anymore R22 replacements- I'm not carrying 10 different jugs of freon on the truck.
    It's going to get to that! In 1 issue of a trade magazine I read, there were 6 huge ads for alternatives from 6 major refrigerant makers. So as these things gain popularity, these 6 and others will be all over the place. So you may be carrying 10 jugs and worrying about recovering 10 gases. OR, some jackleg or hack fills a system with something and doesn't label it or drops an alternative in with 22. You come along to replace it, such the garbage out, put it in your 800# recovery tank. When the recovery people get your garbage, instead of a check for thousands for reclaimed 22, you are paying them to safely destroy the contaminated mess you got.

    As for 410 going, yup. Just came from an RSES class on refrigerants put on by an engineer from an alternative maker. Didn't talk his product, just the industry in general. HFCs are going at some point due to GWP. Coming out now in cars, HFO. Hydrofluro olefin. HFO-1234yf will start appearing in new cars this year. MB, Jeep are a couple mentioned. These won't be replacements for current gases, equipment will have to be designed for it. Chances are another gas (32 was mentioned) will be blended with 1234yf for use in A/C and refrigeration equipment down the road. This gas was developed by DuPont and Honeywell, so you got 2 of the biggest behind it.

    Then there's junk like Frost 22A. A safe alternative? No, lots o propane! Gonna get scary out there!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    north georiga
    Posts
    586
    i say we just go back to r-717, who's with me?

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