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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Montreal, Qc.
    Posts
    761
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    In the US where I've worked a tech really doesn't have the authority to stop an owner from turning something back on The Gas company does though. A tech can turn off an appliance and tell a customer why but a techs control over what an owner does really ends there. Someone from the shop needs to get the paper work signed off if possible. I say "if possible because the manager could say get lost especially if he thinks he's getting hustled.
    A contract that big should involve the person that created it and the manager/owner so that responsibility and liability can be explained.
    Heavy on the liability.
    In Canada or at least in Quebec where I am if I modify a gas line for example add an additional suspended furnace.
    I am responsible for the entire gas line being up to current code.
    This means that for example there are 30 suspended furnaces connected with flexible gas hoses which are not up to current standards.
    If I am the last one to modify the line I am financially responsible to bring that line and everything on it up to code.
    If I do not bring it up to code once notified then the gas authority will call in someone else to do the job and fine us the amount it cost plus fines and penalties.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nanaimo,BC, Canada!
    Posts
    345
    In Bc we have a responsibility if we deem a piece of gas fired equipment to be unsafe especially for a cracked heat exchanger to disable the gas supply to prevent the unit from running in heat. Other wise there are heavy fines involved .

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    1,010
    You guys are speaking like the B149 is only good in your own provinces.
    Lol
    I'm sure Quebec has added an added level of beaurocracy and tax involved.
    "Gas" has to be written twice the size in French than English on the pipe and all that. Lol
    In Calgary, when a commercial building is sold, everything has to be brought up to code before a new business license is granted. Generates a lot of work.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nanaimo,BC, Canada!
    Posts
    345
    Quote Originally Posted by syndicated View Post
    You guys are speaking like the B149 is only good in your own provinces.
    Lol
    .
    I realize that the B149 is used in all provinces however ever province has its own addendums to it! I wouldn't want to assume every province is the same.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    5,346
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostmonkey74 View Post
    In Bc we have a responsibility if we deem a piece of gas fired equipment to be unsafe especially for a cracked heat exchanger to disable the gas supply to prevent the unit from running in heat. Other wise there are heavy fines involved .
    Is there any thing in Canada to prevent an owner from hooking an appliance back up once a tech disables it?
    Here, in states I've worked, the gas co can lock off the meter and that's usually the end but a tech can't do a lock off. Maybe the gas line could be plugged off but many owners could fix that. It sounds like the legal interpretation of "Private property" is different in our countries.
    I'm sure it's changing here bit by bit as there was an attitude of hands off some years back as how much authority the gov has over private property. We even have a Constitutional amendment pertaining to it.That isn't so much today. This is especially true with children and our social welfare system. Once children were considered a form of property. They still are property but now the state has authority over them. I know a lot of people react to the association of kids as property but language aside that's what it amounts to.
    I think what you describe places responsibility and liability on a tech isn't right. Too ez to miss something when the tech was sent to fix something and now the compliance of an entire building falls on them. They might be new to the trade of maybe not very good at it. Now the gov want the tech to validate code compliance.Seems there should be a conduit to an authority where decisions about compliance belong. A tech usually has a working knowledge of code but most are not experts.
    I don't know any company that takes their resources to teach code to their techs. The Union does as part of an apprentice program but most companies aren't Union.
    Are Canadian hvac companies required to teach code. If not I don't see liability. Here, in most cases, liability goes uphill to the employer.
    Tracers work both ways.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    1,010
    Quote Originally Posted by hvacker View Post
    Is there any thing in Canada to prevent an owner from hooking an appliance back up once a tech disables it?
    Here, in states I've worked, the gas co can lock off the meter and that's usually the end but a tech can't do a lock off. Maybe the gas line could be plugged off but many owners could fix that. It sounds like the legal interpretation of "Private property" is different in our countries.
    I'm sure it's changing here bit by bit as there was an attitude of hands off some years back as how much authority the gov has over private property. We even have a Constitutional amendment pertaining to it.That isn't so much today. This is especially true with children and our social welfare system. Once children were considered a form of property. They still are property but now the state has authority over them. I know a lot of people react to the association of kids as property but language aside that's what it amounts to.
    I think what you describe places responsibility and liability on a tech isn't right. Too ez to miss something when the tech was sent to fix something and now the compliance of an entire building falls on them. They might be new to the trade of maybe not very good at it. Now the gov want the tech to validate code compliance.Seems there should be a conduit to an authority where decisions about compliance belong. A tech usually has a working knowledge of code but most are not experts.
    I don't know any company that takes their resources to teach code to their techs. The Union does as part of an apprentice program but most companies aren't Union.
    Are Canadian hvac companies required to teach code. If not I don't see liability. Here, in most cases, liability goes uphill to the employer.
    Up here, if we red tag or otherwise condemn an appliance and notify the owner/user, then they put it back into service, I imagine its their problem.
    The gas co is the only one who can do a lockout.
    Personally I rarely involve them, and I'm not required to let them know as they're not the enforcing authority in my province.

    As far as the code goes, we're taught it in school as part of our apprenticeship. Unlike the states, up here, in order to become a journeyman, you have to pass a multiyear course at a college that all must teach the same thing, so our skills will allow us to work across the country.
    It's our responsibility to work by and know the code, the employer's responsibility to ensure our work is to code and the local jurisdiction's responsibility to enforce it.

    In practice, it's not much different than down there I imagine. We just don't pay as much for health care ;-)

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    2,900
    Since you've already self-hijacked and gone astray a bit...mind if I complain a bit and maybe try to learn something?

    Had a call back to a gas leak today. The local gas company initiated the issue as part of a "scheduled inspection every three years or so..." I have the same gas company ( we all do in this large metro area ) and I had never heard of this.

    Anyway, of course they found the lines were not holding pressure and locked her out. Tech 1 showed up and made suggested repairs noted by gas co. Gas co. was called back out to test when repairs were done and said it still will not hold. I verify it is dropping like a rock upon my arrival and set about valving and capping individual components off. I end up not finding any additional leaks at all joints I have access to and this frustrates the hell out of me. Soaping joints at such a low pressure is a p*ss poor way to find leaks. In my mind you need a fairly sophisticated electronic leak detector, a combustible gas like propane and a good flow meter to locate the leak area - and then pinpoint with bubbles. Our gas company is famous for just waving a wand around, saying they can't find or repair it, and leaving everyone else to pay and clean up the mess. After they shut it down, making it all the more difficult to find it.

    This poor single mother of three was just going about her business, never smelled a hint of gas, did not invite them in and all the sudden she is out $$$ and it is not resolved yet.

    How do you guys track down leaks up there as your gas providers and government seem to be even more strict than ours? How much pressure and holding test time do they require?

    Gas leak calls have quickly become my absolute worst calls of all. I would consider investing some serious cash in the proper equipment. Not liking the bubbles at all for combustible, low pressure supply lines.

    Sorry...carry on.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    336
    I didn't think electronic gas detectors were terribly expensive. They go on sale at carrier often enough.

    Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2

  9. #35
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    448
    I take a pic of the units serial number and remove the white wire from the control board and wrap it around the t-stat wire so it can be used in the future. I also take a pic of the HE.
    I paste those pics on to the quote that is given to the owner/manager.
    I turn the gas valve off inside the unit and at the service valve too.

    What the tenant/owner does when I leave is not under my control. As for further disabling, I don't do anything like that.

    bummer on the contact, nobody likes t0 hear they need to spend $50,000 in replace/repair.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    5,346
    Quote Originally Posted by syndicated View Post
    Up here, if we red tag or otherwise condemn an appliance and notify the owner/user, then they put it back into service, I imagine its their problem.
    The gas co is the only one who can do a lockout.
    Personally I rarely involve them, and I'm not required to let them know as they're not the enforcing authority in my province.

    As far as the code goes, we're taught it in school as part of our apprenticeship. Unlike the states, up here, in order to become a journeyman, you have to pass a multiyear course at a college that all must teach the same thing, so our skills will allow us to work across the country.
    It's our responsibility to work by and know the code, the employer's responsibility to ensure our work is to code and the local jurisdiction's responsibility to enforce it.

    In practice, it's not much different than down there I imagine. We just don't pay as much for health care ;-)

    I here you about health care. Obamacare was written largely by insurance companies which is why they are on board.
    Here it's up to the states to determine what hoops techs will need to jump through. It's a States rights issue as, at least originally, they were sovereign entities.
    Example: I lived in Illinois once and things might have changed but then only a plumber needed a State license. An electricians requirement was determined by municipality. Other than that it was the wild west. Get a pickup and your a contractor.

    Where I live the owner needs a license but not the tech.The tech rides the owners license. Some States have a qualifying test. Because of States Rights issues the Fed doesn't get involved. In fact I can do work on a military base and not need to be licensed as the Fed doesn't license and it's Fed land.
    How many unqualified techs have I known. Many more than qualified.
    For the customer I like your system as some training is better than none. There are techs in the USA that can't spell CODE.
    I don't think the people on this site are average techs. The average don't bother to improve themselves. They go home and watch TV.
    Tracers work both ways.

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