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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    That's so true John but the way I see it we should at least support the side that is in the best interest of humanity, civilization, innocent civilians and ourselves which we haven't done for a long time starting back with Iraq when Carter stabbed the Shah in the back and put the Ayatollah in charge (around a hundred thousand perished in the cleansing blood bath that follow in Iraq). That gave a big boost to modern radical Islam and we have been backing the wrong side ever since. Thank you, thank you very much
    But cheap oil kept flowing... <grin>

    Would you have voluntarily agreed to a 25% increase in the price of gas and petroleum products (think plastic) to have 'righteous' politics?

    Not saying it would go down that way... just suggesting this is the reason it does not.
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  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    But cheap oil kept flowing... <grin>

    Would you have voluntarily agreed to
    a 25% increase in the price of gas and petroleum products (think plastic) to have 'righteous' politics?

    Not saying it would go down that way... just suggesting this is the reason it does not.
    Funny John, don't see the connection there. We buy oil on the open market from whoever, friend or foe.

    However we have since Carter (Iraq) been supporting the wrong side against the interest of civilization, humanity and ourselves in a terrible PC way of thinking. Thank you, thank you very much

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Well perhaps they saw what happen to the Coptic Christians in Egypt when they all joined in immediately in demonstrating and then fighting the government demanding "Democracy".

    Sure they were repaid kindly by their fellow Muslim allies for their efforts and are being slaughtered now. They lost all their government jobs, churches burned villages attacked and Christians murdered with the Army and police standing by and no prosecutions. The Christians in Egypt have no place to go in a Muslim "democracy" printer.

    The Christians in Egypt saw all this and aren't as naive or stupid as apparent'y some governments in West are. Has Canada, the US or Europe gone to the aid of Christians in Egypt? Why do you think we should aid in this future slaughter of 10% of Syria's population?

    Funny you mention Iraq a former secular Muslim country where only the Iranian backed Shiites were happy we overthrew the government and everybody is being killed with Christians at the top of the list. Both the Sunnis and the Shiites taking part. Yeah just great printer. Thank you, thank you very much
    It is a question of power and influence. From your words it sounds the Syrian Christians should be fine standing by and saying they are not taking part in the events around them and should be left alone. I guess that would do me good walking through one of your rough neighborhoods saying I am just a visitor, don't rob or beat me up. Most would think I was stupid and had what was coming to me if anything untoward happened. As far as influencing Syria's future, surely you do not think if we stand by that when the dust settles we will have any influence to counter the Islamist.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  4. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    That's so true John but the way I see it we should at least support the side that is in the best interest of humanity, civilization, innocent civilians and ourselves which we haven't done for a long time starting back with Iraq when Carter stabbed the Shah in the back and put the Ayatollah in charge (around a hundred thousand perished in the cleansing blood bath that follow in Iraq). That gave a big boost to modern radical Islam and we have been backing the wrong side ever since. Thank you, thank you very much
    Carter stabbed the Shah in the back and put the Ayatollah in charge? Oh come on Glenn. Many of us are old enough to have lived through those days and remember. As far as backing the wrong sides, haven't we been backing brutal dictators all along and one by one the people under them have been revolting and overthrowing them? The big problem is that the only opposition groups that have been organized enough to sway events afterwards were the Islamists due to all other opposition groups being eliminated by our dictators. What we sowed we are reaping.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    But cheap oil kept flowing... <grin>

    Would you have voluntarily agreed to a 25% increase in the price of gas and petroleum products (think plastic) to have 'righteous' politics?

    Not saying it would go down that way... just suggesting this is the reason it does not.

    Or just pay normal market rates. Oh yeah, our oil is 'dirty'.

    It’s the oil differential, a multi-layered discount that widens and shrinks depending on the market’s view of pipeline space, refining availability, oil supply and demand that today is depressing the price of Canadian oil by as much as US$50 a barrel.

    It’s an only-in-Canada problem. Mayan crude from Mexico, which is of similar quality to Canadian heavy oil, but is not being targeted by environmentalists and doesn’t need pipelines, is priced at more than US$100 a barrel because it can be loaded on tankers and quickly shipped to the 54 operating refineries — the world’s largest refining complex — in the Gulf states.

    Western Canadian Select heavy crude — the Canadian heavy oil benchmark — was changing hands for as little as US$57.84 per barrel in December, or US$34.41 a barrel less than WTI, said Scotiabank commodities economist Patricia Mohr.

    On the other side of the discount are refiners, and they are enjoying “jumbo margins” by purchasing Canadian feedstock at rock bottom prices while selling gasoline and other oil products at world prices, RBC Capital Markets analysts said in a recent report.
    http://business.financialpost.com/20..._lsa=ab7e-b776
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  6. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    It is a question of power and influence. From your words it sounds the Syrian Christians should be fine standing by and saying they are not taking part in the events around them and should be left alone. I guess that would do me good walking through one of your rough neighborhoods saying I am just a visitor, don't rob or beat me up. Most would think I was stupid and had what was coming to me if anything untoward happened. As far as influencing Syria's future, surely you do not think if we stand by that when the dust settles we will have any influence to counter the Islamist.
    Funny printer you are missing the point here. They are Christians and if and when the radical Islamist rebels take over Syria they will be dispossessed, burned out, lose there jobs, killed, raped and have to flee for their lives rather or not they joined in the fight to overthrow the government.

    Just like the Christians in Egypt and Iraq. I would hope you can see what happened in those countries. Probably not though since it doesn't conform to your belief that the Christians should facilitate their own demise by helping overthrow the secular government of Bashar al-Assad dictator or not for an Islamist state where the Christians will have no rights like other Islamist ran countries and be prosecuted to extinction. Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  7. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    Carter stabbed the Shah in the back and put the Ayatollah in charge? Oh come on Glenn. Many of us are old enough to have lived through those days and remember. As far as backing the wrong sides, haven't we been backing brutal dictators all along and one by one the people under them have been revolting and overthrowing them? The big problem is that the only opposition groups that have been organized enough to sway events afterwards were the Islamists due to all other opposition groups being eliminated by our dictators. What we sowed we are reaping.
    Funny Carter did force the Shah to abdicate his throne and then 1 million radicals out of a population of 80,000 demanded the Ayatollah be installed and anyone opposing this was killed. Check out the history I can show you point by point what happened. Thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  8. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Funny printer you are missing the point here. They are Christians and if and when the radical Islamist rebels take over Syria they will be dispossessed, burned out, lose there jobs, killed, raped and have to flee for their lives rather or not they joined in the fight to overthrow the government.

    Just like the Christians in Egypt and Iraq. I would hope you can see what happened in those countries. Probably not though since it doesn't conform to your belief that the Christians should facilitate their own demise by helping overthrow the secular government of Bashar al-Assad dictator or not for an Islamist state where the Christians will have no rights like other Islamist ran countries and be prosecuted to extinction. Thank you, thank you very much
    And you seem to be missing the point (which is odd because I know you feel this way). If you are not willing to fight for your way of life then someone will take it away from you. If you are so outgunned then it is time to uproot and find someplace safer. Complaining something is not fair really does not cut it in that end of the world. Why am in the country I live in? My grandfathers and grandmothers decided for the safety of the family to pick up and leave all they worked for. Was it fair? No. But the ones that stayed ended up in far worse states than having to start a new life.

    You keep forgetting that Syria might have been a secular country run by a dictator but it was also next to Iran in funding terrorism, bankrolling and arming Hezbollah, supporting insurgents in Iraq fighting Americans, assassination of the Lebanese prime minister, not to mention its treatment of its own people. Surprised that you want a government that was an enemy of your country now to be your friend.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

  9. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by printer2 View Post
    And you seem to be missing the point (which is odd because I know you feel this way). If you are not willing to fight for your way of life then someone will take it away from you. If you are so outgunned then it is time to uproot and find someplace safer. Complaining something is not fair really does not cut it in that end of the world. Why am in the country I live in? My grandfathers and grandmothers decided for the safety of the family to pick up and leave all they worked for. Was it fair? No. But the ones that stayed ended up in far worse states than having to start a new life.

    You keep forgetting that Syria might have been a secular country run by a dictator but it was also next to Iran in funding terrorism, bankrolling and arming Hezbollah, supporting insurgents in Iraq fighting Americans, assassination of the Lebanese prime minister, not to mention its treatment of its own people. Surprised that you want a government that was an enemy of your country now to be your friend.
    Well what your grandparents went through was tragic and was mostly unreported because what the Russians, Poles, Checks, etc. did to the Germans who lived in the confiscated lands in East Germany wasn't allowed to be mentioned at the time and you have to research to find out the horrible truth. That doesn't mean it is right or should have been allowed.

    All that may be true about Assad but I'll give you two to one that the "new" Islamic government of Syria will be worse and while Assad didn't turn Syria into an Al Qaeda training camp I'm sure the new Islamist rebels will in addition to destroying 10% of their population who are Christian and further enslaving the other 50% of the population who happen to be women. I'm not saying we should arm or back Assad but just don't give aid to future radical Jihadists. I say let us and the rest of the West stay out of Syria. Thank you, thank you very much
    "I could have ended the war in a month. I could have made North Vietnam look like a mud puddle."
    "I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution."
    Barry Goldwater

  10. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Well what your grandparents went through was tragic and was mostly unreported because what the Russians, Poles, Checks, etc. did to the Germans who lived in the confiscated lands in East Germany wasn't allowed to be mentioned at the time and you have to research to find out the horrible truth. That doesn't mean it is right or should have been allowed.

    All that may be true about Assad but I'll give you two to one that the "new" Islamic government of Syria will be worse and while Assad didn't turn Syria into an Al Qaeda training camp I'm sure the new Islamist rebels will in addition to destroying 10% of their population who are Christian and further enslaving the other 50% of the population who happen to be women. I'm not saying we should arm or back Assad but just don't give aid to future radical Jihadists. I say let us and the rest of the West stay out of Syria. Thank you, thank you very much
    Yes I understand your view. I am more saying the cards are dealt and it really does not matter much anymore. The Christians are just a side product of a bitter civil war whether they liked it or not. Two years ago there could have been a political solution where all the parties could have found a compromise to live together. Now too much blood has been spilled for a 'lets all be friends' outcome.
    Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. —Mark Twain

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