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  1. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Chicagoland Area
    Posts
    4,510
    icemeister, Although that video is interesting, it is not feasible for commercial applications. First, being clearance for that monstrosity of a crimping tool. Secondly, the abuse the equipment endures. I'm curious as to why a completely evacuated system would require crimp fittings and not being able to use a torch.

    Every leaker is going to require an evacuation. If they begin to use this on bigger systems, I can see techs being injured and equipment being damaged while trying to take shortcuts. I guess it's a good way to weed out the hacks.
    Officially, Down for the count

    YOU HAVE TO GET OFF YOUR ASS TO GET ON YOUR FEET

    I know enough to know, I don't know enough
    Liberalism-Ideas so good they mandate them

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    IRELAND
    Posts
    43
    That video is only showing how to service without a flame,its perfectly acceptable to take a torch to a propane system once the dryer has been cut out and the system flushed with nitrogen a couple of bursts. I normally use aline tap valve to open the system and purge then weld in a shraeder for evacuating and recharge .its important to put a copper bonnet and nut on the shraeder seemingly propane doesnt agree with the shraeder cap rubber seal
    Last edited by coldjoe; 05-05-2013 at 04:20 PM. Reason: mistype

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,265
    Quote Originally Posted by coldjoe View Post
    That video is only showing how to service without a flame,its perfectly acceptable to take a torch to a propane system once the dryer has been cut out and the system flushed with nitrogen a couple of bursts. I normally use aline tap valve to open the system and purge then weld in a shraeder for evacuating and recharge .its important to put a copper bonnet and nut on the shraeder seemingly propane doesnt agree with the shraeder cap rubber seal
    Thanks coldjoe for jumping in on this thread. It surely helps to have some input from someone who has actually dealt with an HC refrigerant system. Most of us Yanks have never even seen one...yet.

    My father used to work with Methyl back in the 1940s & 1950s, which was also flammable, and the general approach was similar. Just purge until it's safe to light the torch.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    IRELAND
    Posts
    43
    My father is a retired tech too he got a bad burn on his hand from a metyl type refrigerant years ago,i was crapping myself the first hc fridge i fixed but its like everything else you just get used to it .first one i done took 3 times longer than it does now .the key to hc is have plenty of nitrogen available to flush.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,265
    Quote Originally Posted by coldjoe View Post
    My father is a retired tech too he got a bad burn on his hand from a metyl type refrigerant years ago,i was crapping myself the first hc fridge i fixed but its like everything else you just get used to it .first one i done took 3 times longer than it does now .the key to hc is have plenty of nitrogen available to flush.
    Valuable words those are.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,265
    Quote Originally Posted by coldjoe View Post
    Luckily in europe its legal to vent hydrocarbon refrigerants .There are limits to the charges allowed in indoor cabinets 1kg in a basement,1.5kg on a shopfloor,2.5kg in a storeroom.thankfully the freezers i work on only have 100grams.Agree about the availability of recovery machines almost non existant,the only one ive seen was big and bulky.
    If you don't recover, how do you vent? Run a hose through a window?

    I assume the R290 used for refrigeration doesn't have a detectable odor, so it wouldn't be offensive to customers like SO2...or no?

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    521
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    You were never getting any phosgene gas anyway, just a variety of acid vapors!

    I don't know why the phosgene thing bugs me so much, but it's a continuously perpetuated myth in the industry, even by people who know better...
    True that Mark.
    A Dupont tech/instructor/rep told me in 1992 that it was a majority of hydrochloric and hydrofluoric acids.
    Either way it isn't any fun breathing in the vapours. It's like inhaling a lit match.
    I had a blower to supply fresh air to the weld area for both combustion and ventilation air that made it possible with out any danger and without the torch flame stutter-fluttering for lack of oxygen.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    IRELAND
    Posts
    43
    the real engineers came before us like my father ,they worked with flammable ,exsplosive and they had no recovery units or vacuum pumps or any stuff like that ,they were real techs and pioneers,laid an easy road for the rest of us thanks

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    IRELAND
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by icemeister View Post
    If you don't recover, how do you vent? Run a hose through a window?

    I assume the R290 used for refrigeration doesn't have a detectable odor, so it wouldn't be offensive to customers like SO2...or no?
    The only cases i work on are small 100 grams but most supermarkets here are now bringing it in on all the upright cases aswell,correct there is no stenching agent in r290 a lot of people might not know that , most natural gases dont smell the stenching is added to alert people its there,between r290 & co2 i miss when i started first out at this crack 6951 tstats and r12 finish on a friday an see u monday

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nanaimo,BC, Canada!
    Posts
    346
    Correct me if I'm wrong but has Europe been using Propane as s refrigerant in domestic and light duty applications for years now?
    Also aren't some of the existing r-12 " drop in" refrigerants blends using isobutane ??

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,987
    Quote Originally Posted by cjpwalker View Post
    Why would you need recovery equipment for a zero odp and zero greenhouse HC refrigerant?
    Propane and isobutane do have a GWP value. Ok, ok, its only about 4.

    Odds heavily favor EPA allowing HC venting in the near future
    If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail. – Abraham Maslow

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    2,987
    Quote Originally Posted by itsiceman View Post
    Is there a chance they will go back to MO in the HC pumps?
    Bet guys would like this change a whole lot more to be rid of the POE
    In theory, MO will work with either propane or isobutane. But it is not ideal for a number of reasons. AB oil is an excellent choice with either propane or isobutane. POE will be used, however, as it works well with most current refrigerants. Compressor manufacturers have to go with what makes their lives simpler.
    If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail. – Abraham Maslow

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    tidewater, va
    Posts
    2,135
    all jokes aside, what method of leak detection is used? is there an electronic leak detector for propane?

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