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  1. #1

    19XR Surge Protection Algorthim

    We have 12 nos. identical 19XR 1250 TR each installed in series (chilled water flow) counter (condenser water flow) arrangment, Each chiller (downstream & upstream) is handling 9oF delta T. My question is, if we want to operate the upstream as a downstream, does this require resetting the surge protection algorthim as the operating condition will change. I am posting this question because I am getting different opinions from specialists. I need to hear from you guys, thank.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Ft Worth Tx ( North Richland Hills)
    Posts
    2,143
    Seems to me that if you're able to maintain a 9 degree delta T......low load surging will not become an issue. The 3 XR's I used to babysit only surged when the delta T fell below 2 degrees.
    How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?

  3. #3
    My concern is, if for any reason (could be other than low load) the chiller start surging, will the machine identify this and stop (as this is the role of the surge protection algorthim), or it will not see that it is surging.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    528
    You mentioned specialists, have you contacted Carrier on this? As they make the chillers, I definitely take their advice.

    The 19XR algorithms are built-in to the chillers and they cannot be changed. There are some parameters that can be adjusted by the user in the field. These could have been adjusted as needed at startup and may need to be adjusted since you want to reverse the operation.

    What is controlling the 12 chillers? As they are Carrier, is there a Chiller Supervisor? I assume they are not all energized at the same time & are being staged by some control since they are in series. You may also need to look into the run sequence as you want to reverse the flow.

  5. #5
    Here in the Middle East, we have Carrier representatives and they are the only bridge between us nad Carrier USA. Carrier representatives confirmed that it will not be a problem but some other X-Carrier USA high technical background engineers insist that it is not possible to change these settings thourgh the CSM (Carrier Chiller System Managment) as it should be done manually.

    The CSM is controlling the sequence of operation of the plant, Carrier is setting it in a way that the upstream chiller will be set to produce the required supply temperature until it is loaded 100% then the downstream will handle this set point and the upstream set point will change accordingly to equalize the loading on both chillers.
    What the other guys say is, re-setting the temperature automatically will require re-setting of the surge protection algorithims, which can't be done except manually. So they insist that the chillers will run at certain conditions without this protection.
    I am some where in between, Carrier for sure they know what they are doing, but the other guys make sense, thats why i needed a third opinion.

  6. #6
    Here in the Middle East, we have Carrier representatives and they are the only bridge between us nad Carrier USA. Carrier representatives confirmed that it will not be a problem but some other X-Carrier USA high technical background engineers insist that it is not possible to change these settings thourgh the CSM (Carrier Chiller System Managment) as it should be done manually.

    The CSM is controlling the sequence of operation of the plant, Carrier is setting it in a way that the upstream chiller will be set to produce the required supply temperature until it is loaded 100% then the downstream will handle this set point and the upstream set point will change accordingly to equalize the loading on both chillers.
    What the other guys say is, re-setting the temperature automatically will require re-setting of the surge protection algorithims, which can't be done except manually. So they insist that the chillers will run at certain conditions without this protection.
    I am some where in between, Carrier for sure they know what they are doing, but the other guys make sense, thats why i needed a third opinion.

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