2013 Trane New Model AC and HP Introductions

[tigerdunes]

I came across this link and thought I would share with the forum.

Any comments from the pros?

Please excuse if this has already been posted.

http://www.gwd-ac.com/MEG/LinkClick....3D&tab%20id=67

[mark beiser]

They should do with the Trane line like they did with American Standard, and drop the numbers off the model family name.

I'm curious to see what actual new AS/Trane equipment will be introduced this year. I know there are a couple of nice things currently in testing, but I'm not sure if they will be out this year or next.

[motoguy128]

Are there actually any matches where the XL61i... er I mean XL18i actually reaches 18 SEER??? It barely makes 16 SEER without oversized coils with a lot of furnace matches. Carriers Infinity 19/21 GS have the same problem. They only reach to nominal SEER ratings when matched with an oversized air handler.

[tigerdunes]

Are there actually any matches where the XL61i... er I mean XL18i actually reaches 18 SEER??? It barely makes 16 SEER without oversized coils with a lot of furnace matches. Carriers Infinity 19/21 GS have the same problem. They only reach to nominal SEER ratings when matched with an oversized air handler.

Kind of what I was thinking...

Heavy on marketing...where's the beef?

[motoguy128]

What wrong with having Standard, High, Ultra, Premium effceincy for equipment model descriptions. We have sub compact, compact, midsized, full size cars. We don't describe them as 45, 40, 35, 30 mpg vehicles. That's not their primary purpose anyway.

Then the dealer can run the actual AHRI matches and tell the customer what the comparable ratings are.

Even better, they should be required to measure static pressure, show the refrigerant data (temps & pressures) and certify the unit after installation. If static pressure is high, you can recalculate the nominal effciency ratings due to increased blower power consumption or on a PSC motor the reduced capacity.

[BaldLoonie]

Our A-S salesman flat out said it was a game to play with Carrier. If there's 1 match with 17 SEER, they can call the XL17i that. I think it started with Lennox who called the HS29 Elite 11 because with expensive TXV coils it could get 11 in some sizes. But since most people bought a standard unit with a piston coil, calling it 11 was a joke. After that, A-S/Trane renamed their base unit Allegiance 11 and XR11 though with the common coil, it was barely a 10.

[dan sw fl]

looks like simply Crappy Gamesmanship
WITH NO BENEFIT to the Customer.

Actually, Meaningless Marketing will probably do MORE HARM to TRANE in the Long run.

I just can't help but see many companies trying to copy The Idiots on The Potomac
with their sets of do-nothing practices.

WHERE did this information explain which models USE an Inverter?

[mark beiser]

Now that I think about it, I've never gotten American Standard models straight in my head since they dropped the numbers off the model names.

[second opinion]

Our A-S salesman flat out said it was a game to play with Carrier. If there's 1 match with 17 SEER, they can call the XL17i that. I think it started with Lennox who called the HS29 Elite 11 because with expensive TXV coils it could get 11 in some sizes. But since most people bought a standard unit with a piston coil, calling it 11 was a joke. After that, A-S/Trane renamed their base unit Allegiance 11 and XR11 though with the common coil, it was barely a 10.

With all mfg. only one combination in the series has to meet the rating and all others will qualify.

[second opinion]

Even better, they should be required to measure static pressure, show the refrigerant data (temps & pressures) and certify the unit after installation. If static pressure is high, you can recalculate the nominal efficiency ratings due to increased blower power consumption or on a PSC motor the reduced capacity.

Unfortunately until it is required by DOE this will not take place. The majority of all dealers do not have the competency to comply. The manufactures need to move boxes and these requirements even though I agree should be mandated will not be implemented by the manufacturer.

The only current way is to educate the consumer and have them demand it from the dealer. If the dealer can not comply with the requirements, call another. When the dealer can not sell equipment to the consumer then changes will be made.

[motoguy128]

The other desing feature I'd like to see in residential equipment with all of these newer tight HE homes, is scaled down commercial equipment. Package air handlers with integrated HRV's, comparative enthalpy economizers, multiple compressors (a couple have this now) economizers and of coruse as I've said many time, small scale residential chillers. The option of chillers is still pretty limited right now. Trane could take the 20 Ton CGAM, and scale it down with a new lower cost controller, single phase compressor(s) and offer them down to even 3 ton size. Maybe single for 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7.5 tons, then 2 stage for 8, 10, 12 and 15 ton models. Heck, for the 3, 4, 5, 6 ton units, you could probably use the existing condenser design and fit a HE in there and mount the flow center on the side. They your just running insulated PEX to and from the unit to a properly sized storage tank instead of a lineset.

[dan sw fl]

The option of chillers is still pretty limited right now. Trane could take the 20 Ton CGAM, and scale it down with a new lower cost controller, single phase compressor(s) and offer them down to even 3 ton size. Maybe single for 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7.5 tons, then 2 stage for 8, 10, 12 and 15 ton models. Heck, for the 3, 4, 5, 6 ton units, you could probably use the existing condenser design and fit a HE in there and mount the flow center on the side.

I wouldn't look for TRANE to be cutting-edge.

BOSCH could easily show TRANE THE FUTURE
http://www.bosch-climate.us/energy-efficient-home/
_________________
http://geosavings.bosch-climate.us/

[motoguy128]

Good point. They seem to be focused on the Commerical side on grabbing market share in service, and pushing established technology at price points and otherwise building a reputation and service network.

[BNME8EZ]

Even better, they should be required to measure static pressure, show the refrigerant data (temps & pressures) and certify the unit after installation. If static pressure is high, you can recalculate the nominal efficiency ratings due to increased blower power consumption or on a PSC motor the reduced capacity.

Unfortunately until it is required by DOE this will not take place. The majority of all dealers do not have the competency to comply. The manufactures need to move boxes and these requirements even though I agree should be mandated will not be implemented by the manufacturer.

The only current way is to educate the consumer and have them demand it from the dealer. If the dealer can not comply with the requirements, call another. When the dealer can not sell equipment to the consumer then changes will be made.

As long as consumers are more concerned with who's $50 cheaper it will never happen. I don't know how many times I have educated the HO, it looked like they were going my direction and the next thing I know I hear is "Well we know we should make these changes but right now we just need to get it going." Then they go cheap, the problems that caused it to fail in the first place goes unrepaired.

[motoguy128]

I fight that mentality almost daily with management in as a facilities engineer. They finally turned a corner and I'm able ot say, "listen, if we spend $$$$ more now, I will save you 2X that 4-5 years from now. The worst is engineering. Their primary goal is first cost and their roejct timeline. Long term operating costs and service life are irrlevant in most cases.

I'm having to pay out big time to upgrade the specification for a railroad crossing so it will last more than 12-16 months. I either spend and extra $40k now and do it right during a 2 day period, or we tear it all out 2 years from now and spend probably $60k and 4 days of downtime to do it right then. Gee... which makes more sense.

[dan sw fl]

I'm having to pay out big time to upgrade the specification for a railroad crossing so it will last more than 12-16 months. I either spend and extra $40k now and do it right during a 2 day period, or we tear it all out 2 years from now and spend probably $60k and 4 days of downtime to do it right then. Gee... which makes more sense.

. _ Kick the can down the road._

We'll cross that crossing later /// In the interests of Full Employment at some point in the future, let's put in crap now.

a.k.a. philosophy of The Idiots on the Potomac
or any 'government think' entity