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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6

    which is better? Aluminum or copper coils? SEER?

    I had a Lennox AC that died the day after the warranty expired. Lovely. Its a Freon leak and the repair would cost more than buying a new unit. I have had 5 bids this week. The "cheapest" was for a day and night using a D&N new furnace, and AC unit. However the salesman wants to use an Aspen coil which is pure copper instead of aluminum. Which is a better coil? I heard aluminum because it doesn't need soldering and is one continuous piece. My old coils rusted out and my Freon leaked out. I also worry about Aspen's TXV value that is part of the coils. Would D&N be better? My last AC they didn't replace the TXV with a Lennox and I lost some SEER.

    my quote...please advise if I will really get a SEER 16, EER 13? They won't tell me.
    5 ton furnace, D&N, model #IGMXL1102120A
    D&N condensing unit model #INXA660GKA
    Aspen coil #ACE-60C34210L087

    I googled and saw that the condensing upgrade of a CXA660GKA, approx $$$ extra, has the 5 year No hassle guarantee, bells and whistles such as the monitors if the compressor or somethings goes out, plus the sturdy outer case. My gardener swings his blower and is always behind my outdoor unit to trim away weeds so I am wondering if it is worth it to get the guard to protect the unit from him. I heard if it has the guard it is harder to hose to keep the coils cleaner....a negative I heard. I would like your opinion.

    ANY ADVISE WOULD BE APPRECIATED. I got burned the last time--ten years ago. I paid a fortune and they didn't replace my coils, nor the copper line and gave me a cheap TXV value. I tried to find out about the SEER at AHRIdirectory.org but their system is down and I have no clue what to type in.

    newbie
    Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 04-29-2013 at 09:41 PM. Reason: pricing

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,914
    Run away from Aspen coils!
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    4,658
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    Run away from Aspen coils!
    woah now.

    We never use aspen coils on new equipment due to warranty concerns, we do use them when we can't find a non-warranty replacement that fits.

    We've actually had a low leak rate on aspen coils.
    "Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

    "Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

    "Just get it done son."

    Dad adjusted

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6
    The contractor's answer to why he is using a Aspen is that the existing transition between the furnace and
    the coil will not need to be replaced due to tight space....thus the reason he picked Aspen, plus he likes them. Why would there be any warranty concerns? From Day and Night?

    By the way, Day and night does not have a phone number to talk to anyone. Zero customer support. I had to go to their menu under contractors and call up a local distributor who sells parts and ask. He wouldn't say so I called up another state and the guy said it is probably OK...that he never heard of any problems but was surprised the contractor wanted it...is it that cheap a substitute in price??? I don't even know if it is a good brand to use...except the contractor's price was 50% less than a Trane for the total system.

    Quote Originally Posted by hvacvegas View Post
    woah now.

    We never use aspen coils on new equipment due to warranty concerns, we do use them when we can't find a non-warranty replacement that fits.

    We've actually had a low leak rate on aspen coils.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    4,658
    Quote Originally Posted by air.girl View Post
    The contractor's answer to why he is using a Aspen is that the existing transition between the furnace and
    the coil will not need to be replaced due to tight space....thus the reason he picked Aspen, plus he likes them. Why would there be any warranty concerns? From Day and Night?

    By the way, Day and night does not have a phone number to talk to anyone. Zero customer support. I had to go to their menu under contractors and call up a local distributor who sells parts and ask. He wouldn't say so I called up another state and the guy said it is probably OK...that he never heard of any problems but was surprised the contractor wanted it...is it that cheap a substitute in price??? I don't even know if it is a good brand to use...except the contractor's price was 50% less than a Trane for the total system.
    Some manufacturers will not accept aspen coils for warranty.
    For awhile, we were having issues with Goodman evaporator coils.
    We tried using aspen coils, and had a much smaller leak rate with aspen coils, and they worked fine.

    Goodman decided that we could no longer use aspen coils as a warranty replacement and still receive warranty credit.
    "Better tell the sandman to stay away, because we're gonna be workin on this one all night."

    "Dude, you need more than 2 wires to a condenser to run a 2 stage heatpump."

    "Just get it done son."

    Dad adjusted

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6
    How will I know beforehand if Day and Night will have any warranty issues? They don't have a phone number. Their warranty is bogus. It says 10 years but one must email or fax over their contract within 30 days to get the 10 years otherwise it is 5 years. There is no way to find out if they actually received it until a problem occurs 8 years from now and they will say they never got the registration.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    1,013
    Spend the money, it's your house and your comfort, going cheap on equipment always costs more down the road.

    Did you get a second quote on the repair at all? Perhaps the first company marked up the repair to sell you a system?

    No air conditioner repair I'm aware of exceeds the cost of a new furnace and AC at the same time.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6
    repair: my problem is a leak in my Freon. I have near zero Freon left so I had a tech spend 1.5 hours doing a electronic wand test. It was for free because I was upset my warranty expired a day before and I was on the annual service plan...so they sent a tech to locate the leak. I had the Freon checked twice. The first time the tech said I had zero left. The second time, the guy who did the electronic test said the pressure was 50%. He couldn't locate the leak and said perhaps it is because there is little Freon left and it is in the line or gone. He then wanted $$$ plus $$ a pound after 6 pounds to locate the leak and repair and refill the Freon. If the problem was in the coils he said it could be $$$ to $$$ plus the $$$$ plus the Freon after 6 pounds. My 5 ton unit holds 10 pounds so the price would be $$$ for the extra Freon. He said since I tried to run the unit without Freon and it being 10 years old, he would gladly fix it.

    A second guy told me it would be $$$ including R-22 Freon [Dupont Mo-99] and a new 13 SEER coil and valve, new secondary pan with safety, all new line set, and a exterior cover that will cover up all the lines.

    A third guy said it would cost $$$ to locate and repair including R-22 for 10 pounds... except if it was the coils and the leak is in the middle and impossible to repair, it would need to be replaced... it would cost $$$ more for a 13 SEER and TXV value but he will give me a 30 day guarantee :-) and thinks he can find leak in the line or will cut and repair the existing coils [they are 30 years old, I never replaced them, they are dusty, wet and old looking]...who knows what SEER it is.

    Pricing isn't allowed
    Last edited by jpsmith1cm; 04-30-2013 at 05:13 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    The Zone
    Posts
    392
    Aluminum is not as reactive to VOC's and normal corrosion.
    Carrier has a tin coated coil also.
    My advise is to find a local contractor who has a great reputation.
    The equipment we sell has varying levels of distributor support across the US.
    Good contractors are those who not only have good relationships with their customers but suppliers as well.
    The incentive to switch over to new equipment seems strong here but may not fit into your long term plans for your home.
    I like the idea of breathing air through a new system with advanced filtration that is saving me on my utilities while giving me piece of mind.
    Still you may talk to a few more pepole to get a better idea of all your options.
    Take your time because you increase your long term satisfaction knowing you made your choice with your eyes wide open instead of haste.
    It's Hammer Time!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    6
    Day and Night does not have a phone number so I went to their contractor's link and it showed who their distributor was. They have 37 offices across the US so I called up 4 today and picked their brains. One gave me the AHR rating based on the equipment: 16 SEER, 13 EER: D/N AC 5 ton, D/N one stage 100,000 furnace and an Alpine coil and valve. He picked Alpine because they make easy to fit coils. Someone told me to check to see if I would have warranty issues with D/N but since there is no customer service or phone or email I can't do that...thus the reason for this post.

    Another local contractor gave me a bid for all American Standard. They have wonderful customer service and gave me a list of their "elite" trained dealers. Two were from Trane and one was from American Standard. The person from American Standard was the person who was in charge of the dealers. She personally picked the three and said how not only are they authorized dealers, all three were "elite"...meaning they had to take hours of training per year.

    Out of these three, One was the repair job for $$$ something..he thinks I can repair the unit. He was from AS. The other two were from Trane and were the highest in price. Shocking.

    Our needs: we are retired, hopefully will move in a few years and move closer to our grandchildren. We need a unit that will work while we are here and hopefully will be a plus as a selling point if we sell. We have no interest in the SEER since we won't be here to enjoy the savings... but figured 16 SEER is in the middle to be able to use a single stage new furnace without having to spend more on a variable speed furnace.

    So, based on our needs and budget, is it worth putting good money in an old AC system or should we spend the money on the cheapest bid [D/N and spend a couple of dollars now and get a "new" unit which will help a tad on our desert [yes it gets up to 117 in the summers] home? I don't expect to save that much but last year we spent $1200 every two months for water and power to run our AC at 75 indoors.
    Last edited by beenthere; 04-30-2013 at 05:39 AM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lancaster PA
    Posts
    66,799
    air.girl, prices are not allowed here.
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    How many times must one fix something before it is fixed?

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