Windows 8

[fac 213]

Hi I am looking to get a new lap top. It comes with windows 8. Has anybody tried setting up carrier service tool on windows 8 yet. The version of service tool I have is 2.2.
Thanks

[jtrammel]

I don't like windows 8 at all, 7 is much better IMO. I don't do controls work though.

[ammoniadog]

I am using Windows 8. I don't have any experience with the software that you want to install, but as far as I know, everything that is windows 7 compatible will work with windows 8.

Don't be scared off by all of the bad reviews of windows 8 that you will read. I agree that the colorful tiles that they are pushing on you are stupid, and so is the fact that they got rid of the start menu. However, the old desktop is still hidden away in there, and it can be made usable.

There are free programs that can bring back the start menu and force the computer to start up in desktop mode. I use one I got from www.classicshell.net. With this simple program, your new windows 8 computer will work just like any other computer that you may have used in the last 15 or so years.

[s2sam]

Good day All,

Just a few clarifications and some "features" about Windows 8... Firstly, older Windows applications may or may not work under Win8. Those applications that followed the Microsoft doctrine/KoolAid will work. I have some old VB6 programs that surprisingly work fine under Win8. Applications that "did their own thing" will simply not work under Win 8 natively. For example JCI's HVACPro, etc. Unfortunately Win8 does not have a "XP Mode" like what is available with Win7 (Pro/Ultimate) and so you are left to use other Virtualization software ... and then find and purchase a license for whatever older version of Windows you wish to Virtualize.

As for the look and feel... yes it is dramatically different and there are a number of things that were done in previous versions of Windows that simply are not done in Win 8. For example... When you open the more familiar "desktop" you will not find a "Start-Programs" button on the lower left. How do I find my installed Apps you ask? Well, you have to move your mouse to the right side of the screen and a side menu will appear. Here you will select the "Search" icon... which is not the "search as you remember it", but will "search" your systems Apps...

As for closing other apps not running in your desktop... or even closing your desktop. Interesting, you will not see the familiar "X" on the app's menu bar... as there is no menu bar. All apps that run outside of the Desktop do not include a Menu Bar. How do you close these? Well, its intuitive ... ahem ... you move your mouse to the top of the screen until the mouse point turns to a hand and then you left mouse click and drag this app to the bottom of the screen... Sadly, it took me a bit to figure this out... I guess I am too dense to find this intuitive.

The issues that concern me the most is Microsoft's decision to be my permanent big brother. Firstly, you will find that you have to create a Microsoft Account when you Install/register Win 8. This in itself is not too bad, but what is disturbing is that your online Microsoft Account is directly linked to your Win 8 box. If you forget your computer's password you have to go to another computer and log into your Microsoft Account and then change it there... and whammo your Win8's computer has now been updated with your new password... So, your Win8 machine phones home quite regularly.

The second issue I have is that Microsoft has decided to force all third party device drivers to be Digitally signed, otherwise Win8 will simply not load them. On the surface this does not seem like a bad idea, as device drivers can knacker your system. However, some of use are big boys and prefer to make this decision on our own. In past Windows versions a warning dialog box would appear, which is fine... but Win 8 just says "nope" you are done, no loady ... Acquiring digitally signed device drivers may not be overly easy, as some may be from older software that the vendor no longer supports... or from independent developers who released apps/drivers as freeware and so why would they spend money on a yearly Security certificate for software they make available at no charge? Can you bypass this feature? Yes, but it is quite hidden and requires you to drop to an elevated command shell and execute some low level commands... which a number of users will simply not know how to do.

The last issue which for me is the most concerning is that Microsoft has been pushing (forcing, coercing, etc) PC hardware manufacturers to implement a low level change to how your PC hardware actually boots... called UEFI. What this change does is prevent an O/S from booting on "your" hardware unless it has been digitally signed... and to date (well since I last looked in Feb) Microsoft is the only firm that can issue (sell) these certificates. Sounds like a royalty in a way? What is disturbing is that Microsoft has indirect control of what O/S will boot on your computer! Thankfully the PC Hardware vendors have not yet enforced this... yet ... and that the Linux community is creating a work around (a pre-boot loader as it were called Shim).

Anyway, I hope my above did not come off too much as a rant... I am just annoyed with the one sided approach that Mircosoft has been taking and also I am disturbed by this significant increase in being my big Brother.

Cheers,

Sam

[fac 213]

Ok Windows 8 seems to have issues, but has anybody tried to load carrier service tool 2.2 onto windows 8 ? And thanks for the imput.

[primmers]

apple

[Trehak01]

Linux..

[behappy]

apple

I would go to apple tomorrow, but most of my stuff will not work under apple.
Wrigthsoft (will have to buy another copy or duel boot a apple box, then will still have problems), and others.

[Landmine]

s2sam, I'm sorry but you are wrong. I believe you are claiming things as fact, when you just don't know the real answer or understand what is going on. (That is not support to come off as an insult)

I have JCI's HVACPro running on Windows 8, so maybe you are missing a library needed to run the program. Do you have older versions of Java installed?

Windows 8 does have XP Mode
http://lifehacker.com/5965889/how-to...e-in-windows-8

Only Metro UI apps don't have the X, classic desktop apps have the same title bar you are used to. If you want to close a Metro App you click on the very top of the screen and drag down.

Your Windows 8 computer can be setup to either use a Microsoft Online Account or a Local Account, just like every other version of Windows.

You can also just like in Windows 7 install unsigned drivers, you just need to make sure that you are running in an Admin account so that you have access to change the system.

[s2sam]

s2sam, I'm sorry but you are wrong. I believe you are claiming things as fact, when you just don't know the real answer or understand what is going on. (That is not support to come off as an insult)

I have JCI's HVACPro running on Windows 8, so maybe you are missing a library needed to run the program. Do you have older versions of Java installed?

Windows 8 does have XP Mode
http://lifehacker.com/5965889/how-to...e-in-windows-8

Only Metro UI apps don't have the X, classic desktop apps have the same title bar you are used to. If you want to close a Metro App you click on the very top of the screen and drag down.

Your Windows 8 computer can be setup to either use a Microsoft Online Account or a Local Account, just like every other version of Windows.

You can also just like in Windows 7 install unsigned drivers, you just need to make sure that you are running in an Admin account so that you have access to change the system.

Good day Landmine,

With all due respect did you even take the time to read and understand what I wrote? I say this as a number of your comments completely misinterpret what I said.

Firstly, I may be wrong on this, but HVACPro does not rely upon new versions of Java... It never has. If you have a HVACPro version that does I would like to know the version and why you think it needs Java to run. In all of my experience I never once had to be concerned about an installed Window's Java Version to run HVACPro. The past problems with HVACPro had to do with their low level device driver for accessing the serial port. Again, please correct me if I am wrong, but please provide the basis for your comment.

Also how are you running HVACPron Win 8? Are you indeed running it natively (i.e. directly from Win 8 with no virtualization software)? If so, we all would really like to know... including JCI themselves. If you found a way to have HVACPro to run natively in Win8 or even in Win 7 (64 bit) please post what you have done.

Secondly, as for your comment about Win 8 and XP mode. If you would take the time to read the link you provided you will see what I said was correct. Here is the pertinent info from your link:

Microsoft gave Windows 7 users a way to run older applications via Windows XP Mode. With Windows 8, however, that mode is no longer officially supported, and if you want to run Windows XP in a virtual machine, you need the license for it. Lifehacker reader Miloš, however, has found a workaround.

Please explain what I said was wrong? Remember I said:

Unfortunately Win8 does not have a "XP Mode" like what is available with Win7 (Pro/Ultimate) and so you are left to use other Virtualization software ... and then find and purchase a license for whatever older version of Windows you wish to Virtualize.

If you do not see the difference or perhaps I failed to make my point was that Win8 does not have its own XP Mode... Even your provided link states that the way they are presenting XP mode is a work around and you need the license for it .

As for your comments about the Metro UI... again, read what I wrote:

As for closing other apps not running in your desktop... or even closing your desktop. Interesting, you will not see the familiar "X" on the app's menu bar... as there is no menu bar. All apps that run outside of the Desktop do not include a Menu Bar. How do you close these? Well, its intuitive ... ahem ... you move your mouse to the top of the screen until the mouse point turns to a hand and then you left mouse click and drag this app to the bottom of the screen...

Was I a bit wordy, sure. But my point is still valid and says what you said so I fail to see how I "just don't know the real answer or understand what is going on."

As for the Microsoft account... Yes, you can somewhat disable access, but by default Win8 tickles Microsoft periodically... Again my point was that there is far more phoning home with Win 8 than with other Windows version. Also this is to my knowledge the first Windows version that allows for a direct Microsoft controlled access of your login credentials. Perhaps past Windows versions allowed for this, but I was certainly unaware if this was the case.

As for unsigned drivers... your post is not entirely complete. What specific drivers are you talking about and are you sure that they were not digitally signed? I say this, as there is a difference between signing certificates and the messages they generate. Also not all drivers are the same in terms of who wrote them and what they actually do. There indeed may be some that do load (I have not tested all of the possible drivers), but I would suspect that these are from privileged Microsoft partners, etc... and I would bet that they are also signed even though you did not realize it.

Lastly, since I was so out of touch on my previous post, why no rebuttal about UEFI?

Cheers,

Sam

[Landmine]

Sam, you were right. I in my sleepy state misread and misinformed.

I value you complete answer and respond. I did not reply to the UEFI because I had something to comment as you were 100% right with that and as it seems... Everything. Well done Sir.

[s2sam]

Sam, you were right. I in my sleepy state misread and misinformed.

I value you complete answer and respond. I did not reply to the UEFI because I had something to comment as you were 100% right with that and as it seems... Everything. Well done Sir.

Good day Landmine,

Thank you for your comments. For a while there I thought I lost my marbles My apologies if I came on a bit abruptly, but your first sentence came across quite strongly despite your note saying it was not to be taken as an insult.

Trust me I am not always right... I make mistakes routinely. With regards to Win 8 I am by no means an expert and since there has been some push back from Windows users I suspect (hope) that Win8 will change. Perhaps not... But for now, what I posted has been my experience. As for Win 8 drivers... I just recently went through the digital signing process (application and device driver) and Win8's requirements for all of this... thus the reason I am somewhat versed on the process. That is not to say that this process does not change... and it might and if so then my previous comments may be incorrect and/or dated.

Cheers,

Sam

[orion242]

but by default Win8 tickles Microsoft periodically...

LOL

By default, I like to be tickled periodically also.....

[s2sam]

LOL

By default, I like to be tickled periodically also.....

Good day Orion242,

Well, that changes my whole perspective... Maybe Microsoft likes a little tickling too

Cheers,

Sam

[s2sam]

Good day All,

Perhaps some changes are going to Happen?

Windows 8 Problems & Possible Solutions

Microsoft is preparing an update to Windows 8 for release later this year. It says the changes are designed to address complaints and confusion with the new operating system.

<...more>

http://www.pddnet.com/news/2013/05/w...ible-solutions

Cheers,

Sam

[orion242]

You might want to check this out if your not so impressed with the metro crap.

http://www.classicshell.net/

[s2sam]

You might want to check this out if your not so impressed with the metro crap.

http://www.classicshell.net/

Good day Orion,

Excellent! Thanks for the link!

Cheers,

Sam