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  1. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by corny View Post
    What amazed me was that he use IMHO in there....lol
    He even signed off 'respectfully'. I would have said "and eat sh1t and die' It frustrates me sometimes when I realize I do not have those literary talents others do.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  2. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    He even signed off 'respectfully'. I would have said "and eat sh1t and die' It frustrates me sometimes when I realize I do not have those literary talents others do.
    And I thought you had literary talents.

  3. #94
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    For an 8 year old

  4. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    For an 8 year old

    In Texas we have a special Texas saying.

    NANNY NANNY BOO BOO!!! That pretty much covers everything up to about age 8.

    Older children will graduate to NANNY NANNY BOO BOO AND STICK YOUR HEAD IN DOO DOO!!! It is not a perfect system, but the children seem to work it out among themselves. The little heathens.

    LOL buddy.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "I am sorry for interrupting, please continue with your quarreling" Some chick on TV

  5. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermophysics View Post
    You still don't get it.

    When someone says "Yeah, well, I have a right to my own opinion" they are making a wholly irrelevant statement.

    Imagine you and a friend walk back into the kitchen to find I have arrived and am seated eating the toast you had put on just before leaving for a second. You say to me "Buddy, that's our toast". Your friend agrees with you saying "Hey dude, you've taken our toast". Then I reply to you both "Hey gents, both of you are talking about toast - did you know toast is made from bread?".

    Sure toast is made from bread - so what? What has that got to do with the fact that I have taken your toast?

    So why would someone want to remind you that they have a right to EXPRESS their opinions? Surely they were just expressing an opinion a moment ago and did so with the assumption you understood all that already?

    The reason why people appeal to the right is because you have shown them something inconsistent with their beliefs - something that questions their beliefs.

    Usually what has happened is that they started of expressing those beliefs with a very obvious degree of personal attachment - like they wanted to force the belief to be true - and now they want to save face under the light of counter evidence.

    They want to claim a right to have their beliefs be considered as true as any other - they are no longer interested in the truth - they are only interested in saving face.

    The trick is to do what the ancient Greek sceptics did - don't turn any of your beliefs into a dogma in the first place. It's okay to have firmly held beliefs but never assume any are indefeasible. The Vatican didn't just firmly believe the sun orbits the earth - they thought that belief was indefeasible and even believed they had a divine right to such beliefs.

    The best direction we could go in is actually to deny any such right altogether - instead people should be ensured the right to challenge other beliefs and defend their own - that's about all that really makes sense.

    The people should never have been denied the right to challenge the Vatican's belief that the sun orbits the earth but at the same time the Vatican should still have the right to defend it - this is the best form of tolerance - fighting beliefs only with counter beliefs - with philosophic debate.

    The better practice we all get at challenging and defending beliefs the better our societies tend to become all around.

    This is why the media are so important in our Western Democracies.

    This is another reason why we should be challenging the beliefs of the religious all the time - especially Islam...

    "Paradox of Success: the more successful a policy is in warding off some unwanted condition the less necessary it will be thought to maintain it. If a threat is successfully suppressed, people naturally wonder why we should any longer bother with it." (James Piereson, "On the Paradox of Success." Real Clear Politics, Sep. 11, 2006)
    Oh...I get it alright.

    Quibble though you may with the phrase "I have a right to my opinion;" and question it's relevancy all you want - it's meaning and general intent is quite clear. It means who the hell do you think you are to determine the validity of my opinions and beliefs?

    You are obviously forwarding the pretense that the person uttering the phrase has an ignorant or false belief; and I am questioning by which, or whose criteria you make that determination. I am questioning your right to make that determination to the same extent you are questioning my right to have an opinion - inasmuch as you may feel the question of the right to it is irrelevant.

    I'm not sure where the disconnect is here, but I'm quite sure that cherry picking my responses and wallowing in symantics will not help. It is at best obfuscating and at worse intellectually dishonest.

    So let's try this: Are you not at least implying that the opinions, beliefs, attitudes, social mores, traditions etc held by people are not valid unless they can back it up with evidence or facts you deem credible? And, if so; how do you arrive at what are admissable and credible facts or evidence?

    It seems to me your whole premise boils down to the simple preceeding questions; and I can't for the life of me imagine how you could expect the reader to conclude anything other.

    You are quite corret, of course, to question things from time to time and take advantage of new discoveries. You probably also know that doctors used to use leeches to treat a number of maladies; and I for one am damn glad they discovered superior technologies.

    If that's a major part of what you wished to convey...you could have just said so. I would have quickly agreed.

  6. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    In Texas we have a special Texas saying.

    NANNY NANNY BOO BOO!!! That pretty much covers everything up to about age 8.

    Older children will graduate to NANNY NANNY BOO BOO AND STICK YOUR HEAD IN DOO DOO!!! It is not a perfect system, but the children seem to work it out among themselves. The little heathens.

    LOL buddy.
    A well placed nanny nanny boo boo can speak volumes and is often a far more efficient use of time.

  7. #98
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    You do not have the right to your opinions!

    Medicine leeches aren't obsolete. But I suppose your opinion condemns them? Based on your observations of modern medical practice? I suppose you have that right.

  8. #99
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    You do not have the right to your opinions!

    In fact if you depressurize some refer and your fingers happen to be in the path of said refer you might be thankful the docs have a few leeches handy.

  9. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Core_d View Post
    In fact if you depressurize some refer and your fingers happen to be in the path of said refer you might be thankful the docs have a few leeches handy.
    Well I'll be damned. Do you find them helpful for those embarassing puffy eyes?

    http://www.yalemedlaw.com/2011/08/me...om-the-swamps/

    That just adds a whole new dimension to this conversation. Now all we need is for someone to fall off right off the edge of the earth...

  10. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by hurtinhvac View Post

    That just adds a whole new dimension to this conversation. Now all we need is for someone to fall off right off the edge of the earth...
    All it takes is 17000 mph

  11. #102
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    Who polices the police?
    Who makes politicians accountable?
    Who guarantees freedom of speech?
    Who guarantees the right to own private property without 'legal confiscation at the whim of a polecat?
    Who guarantees innocence until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, by a jury of peers?
    Who provides a level playing field, rather than favoring a few fat-cats at the expense of the masses?
    Who protects citizens from tyranny from the govt?

    A society without a means to push back govt... do not have answers for those questions above.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

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    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

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  12. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by ga-hvac-tech View Post
    Who polices the police?
    Who makes politicians accountable?
    Who guarantees freedom of speech?
    Who guarantees the right to own private property without 'legal confiscation at the whim of a polecat?
    Who guarantees innocence until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, by a jury of peers?
    Who provides a level playing field, rather than favoring a few fat-cats at the expense of the masses?
    Who protects citizens from tyranny from the govt?

    A society without a means to push back govt... do not have answers for those questions above.
    Yes and there is only one answer "taxes", no govt can run without money, so if you look at most countries where the masses pay very little in tax, they have very little power.

    you want to change a govt, withhold your labour and taxes. Very quick results at a local level.

  13. #104
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    Quote from 'hurtinhvac':
    “The problem then is that if they do have such a right then we have a duty to ensure that they have true opinions which means the the debate should continue - not stop - and continue until such time as their right has been fulfilled and the prior violation of that right - them holding a false opinion - is remedied by way of the continued debate.”
    (end)

    IMO the problem arises when we are asked 'who' makes the decision as to what is a false opinion and what is a true opinion?
    If there is a 'power' who makes the final judgement.... how do you keep graft and politics and ultimately tyranny out of that decision-making process? (People being as they are... every country starts out with grand intentions... and ends up a political mess).

    OTOH: When a society is free by choice... a Darwinian style of natural selection seems to keep the standards high... until everyone becomes lazy. Would that be better, or worse?

    Then we have countries where a specific religion and the govt are blended (politically intertwined for power). Result always seems to be fear mongering by a few 'elite' religious leaders... while the masses are held in tight control (and the elites live like kings--literally). Is this a good system?

    Or we could have a nomadic arrangement where there is no rule of law... everyone does as they please... survival of the fittest and best war-lord wins... how about that system?

    Maybe our US Constitution and Bill of rights is not such a bad idea after all... just one problem: Folks have a right to think as they choose (whoops, there are those pesky opinions again)... as long as that thought process does not take away the same right from anyone else.
    Gee, that sounds like a system that just might work... until the polecats screw it up... as they screw up EVERY country in the history of mankind.
    GA-HVAC-Tech

    Quality work at a fair price with excellent customer service!

    Romans Ch's 5-6-7-8

    2 Chronicles 7:14

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