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  1. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
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    San Diego, CA
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    203
    Quote Originally Posted by Phase Loss View Post
    Not interested in what the book says...I want to hear about real life experience.

    Has anyone ever ran into a system problem during service that you could 100% say was caused by brazing without flowing nitro/co2...whatever.

    I've never once flowed nitrogen during service repairs, don't even pressure test. (my welds don't leak)

    Just braze it up, pull a vacuum, and get it going.

    I've brazed in cap tubes, txv's, reversing valves, all kinds of valves, never had one fail to my knowledge.

    I've only been in the trade 9 years, so maybe not enough time has passed to tell yet.
    I've been in the trade close to 15 years, about 3 years ago I had a store with something like 25% of the cases struggling to make temp. They were all refrigerant starved. I went through and cleaned the screens, they were plugged with that flaky black soot that builds up inside your pipes when you don't purge your lines.

    Also, please tell me you're joking.

  2. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    wedged in freezer shelf
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    6,665
    Quote Originally Posted by Phase Loss View Post
    Not interested in what the book says...I want to hear about real life experience.

    Has anyone ever ran into a system problem during service that you could 100% say was caused by brazing without flowing nitro/co2...whatever.
    I could not
    I believe any restrictions I've ever had were caused by overheating, moisture or strait up piping issues causing oil return problems.
    “If You Can Dodge A Wrench You Can Dodge A Ball”

  3. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,066
    JP

    I'm not talking about starting a new store, where if they didn't flow on the install of thousands of braze joints...yeah, you get some plugged txv screens.

    I'm talking in a service situation.

    Stores been up and running for a while now. you get a leak on a cracked 90 down at a case.

    pump it down, replace the 90.

    I'll never flow in that situation. ever. never.

    and everything has been ok...so far!
    Last edited by Phase Loss; 04-30-2013 at 10:24 PM.

  4. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    2,066
    Quote Originally Posted by cmclifton View Post
    I've been in the trade close to 15 years, about 3 years ago I had a store with something like 25% of the cases struggling to make temp. They were all refrigerant starved. I went through and cleaned the screens, they were plugged with that flaky black soot that builds up inside your pipes when you don't purge your lines.

    Also, please tell me you're joking.
    Yeah, I've seen that too...even on 40 year old stores.

    that can't still possibly be soot from not flowing.

    It's more likely burnt oil from high discharge temps.

    And no, I'm not joking. I've never flowed nitro during a service situation. you're talking about a handful of braze joints at best.

    IE: replacing a TXV, 3 joints, don't even wrap the valve with a rag...never had one fail....ever. Use a rose bud tip too, on full blast...for everything.

  5. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    147
    Industrial grade Nitrogen has 7.3PPM of moisture
    Carbon Dioxide has 11.3PPM of moisture
    I really dont see how 4ppm could make a difference

  6. #58
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    585
    Quote Originally Posted by Phase Loss View Post
    Yeah, I've seen that too...even on 40 year old stores.

    that can't still possibly be soot from not flowing.

    It's more likely burnt oil from high discharge temps.

    And no, I'm not joking. I've never flowed nitro during a service situation. you're talking about a handful of braze joints at best.

    IE: replacing a TXV, 3 joints, don't even wrap the valve with a rag...never had one fail....ever. Use a rose bud tip too, on full blast...for everything.
    Likewise. Never had a problem
    Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

  7. #59
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
    Posts
    25,567
    Quote Originally Posted by Phase Loss View Post
    JP

    I'm not talking about starting a new store, where if they didn't flow on the install of thousands of braze joints...yeah, you get some plugged txv screens.

    I'm talking in a service situation.

    Stores been up and running for a while now. you get a leak on a cracked 90 down at a case.

    pump it down, replace the 90.

    I'll never flow in that situation. ever. never.

    and everything has been ok...so far!
    I've done it both ways.

    I can't tell a difference.


    I also think that, given the size of the systems we're talking about, we've got multiple filters and driers to handle any extra oxides that are formed and, if we're doing our jobs properly, they are being checked and/or changed on a regular basis.

  8. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Newnan Ga,
    Posts
    77
    that was the reason for my Thread.... Nitrogen or no Nitrogen?I know everybody wants to say they do it all the time everytime but C-mon guys....
    Simple repairs and quick fix issues to get the Customer back up,I use it to purge as I weld in linesets or compressors but a cut out and weld back in a drier? to flow Nitrogen you always Have to Reclaim the gas ALWAYS... I say lets get real......

  9. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
    Posts
    10,328
    FWIW...My supply house stocks Praxair UN1066 Nitrogen which is listed as having < 0.2 ppm moisture according to their spec sheet.

  10. #62
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    5,506
    X3
    I love the smell of phosgene first thing in the morning:

    To apply for professional membership click here


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  11. #63
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
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    203
    Yeah, I've seen that too...even on 40 year old stores.

    that can't still possibly be soot from not flowing.
    I've never seen a store that hadn't had a remodel in 40 years...

  12. #64
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    147
    Quote Originally Posted by cmclifton View Post
    I've never seen a store that hadn't had a remodel in 40 years...
    Lucky.....

  13. #65
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    San Diego, CA
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    203
    Quote Originally Posted by KickedGinger View Post
    Lucky.....
    Possibly. I was thinking about this a little more today. How exactly would burnt oil from high discharge temps end up plugging my TXV screens? It would have to somehow make it through the liquid line filter/drier before it ever got to the TXV screens...

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