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  1. #1

    6.5 tons for sub 1000sq ft restaurant?

    Hi everyone,

    Hope I'm in the right section.

    I'm in the process of setting up a new food establishment in a brand new building. HVAC will need to be installed.

    The space is under 1000sq ft, with a closed kitchen with no hobs, only ovens. three fridges and thats pretty much it for equipment.

    Customer area has seating for 20-30 people. Occupancy should be less than 40-50 people.

    How many tons should I be expected to install?

    Contractor informed me it should be around 6.5 tons after having calculated loads...seems a tad too much..

    Thanks

    p.s. Location is in Florida

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Northern VA 38 degrees N by 76 degrees W
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    5,062
    Quote Originally Posted by evoluzione View Post
    Hi everyone,

    Hope I'm in the right section.

    I'm in the process of setting up a new food establishment in a brand new building. HVAC will need to be installed.

    The space is under 1000sq ft, with a closed kitchen with no hobs, only ovens. three fridges and thats pretty much it for equipment.

    Customer area has seating for 20-30 people. Occupancy should be less than 40-50 people.

    How many tons should I be expected to install?

    Contractor informed me it should be around 6.5 tons after having calculated loads...seems a tad too much..

    Thanks

    p.s. Location is in Florida
    Can depend greatly on what type and size of ovens used in the kitchen and ventilation requirements.

  3. #3
    yeah I agree, but is there a general average/sq ft?

    I think I read somewhere 1ton/200 sq ft....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    No way to have a rule of thumb for commercial. You do a heat load for the structure only and make sure there enough heat at night with equipment off at design temps, then add the btu ...sensible and latent of occupants, equipment, lighting, ventilation. Preferably you use a unit with an economizer for tempering make up air, reducing AC use in cold weather and for fresh air for occupancy.

    Role off thumb is pointless. A subway might have half the load of a pizza place with ovens plus vent hoods for friers and even a small grill.

    Also on place with southern exposure with a glass front and no awning will meted a lot more cooling than a brick front, small low e window with northern exposure.

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Northern Wisconsin
    Posts
    2,036
    Quote Originally Posted by evoluzione View Post
    Hi everyone,

    Hope I'm in the right section.

    I'm in the process of setting up a new food establishment in a brand new building. HVAC will need to be installed.

    The space is under 1000sq ft, with a closed kitchen with no hobs, only ovens. three fridges and thats pretty much it for equipment.

    Customer area has seating for 20-30 people. Occupancy should be less than 40-50 people.

    How many tons should I be expected to install?

    Contractor informed me it should be around 6.5 tons after having calculated loads...seems a tad too much..

    Thanks

    p.s. Location is in Florida

    yeah I agree, but is there a general average/sq ft?

    I think I read somewhere 1ton/200 sq ft....
    The most expensive mistakes I've seen putting together commerical eatting establishments were always done in an attempt to cut initial costs. The commercial building code will dictate what you must have. The heating and cooling loads, based on the code, will determine the equipment you need. If trying to get the AC load down to 5 tons (as you kind of hinted at) to allow for the use of single phase power is what is driving the question, then I strongly suggest putting in 2 units verses one. With that kind of potential customer load a failure of a single unit could easily loose you in one day all you hope to save by going a "tad" bit smaller.

    Plumbing and HVAC are usually the hardest, most disruptive and costly to modify after the fact. Both can easily loose you thousands of dollars of business a day if they prove to have been designed, installed or chosen according to "low bid".
    Use the biggest hammer you like, pounding a square peg into a round hole does not equal a proper fit.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by firecontrol View Post
    The most expensive mistakes I've seen putting together commerical eatting establishments were always done in an attempt to cut initial costs. The commercial building code will dictate what you must have. The heating and cooling loads, based on the code, will determine the equipment you need. If trying to get the AC load down to 5 tons (as you kind of hinted at) to allow for the use of single phase power is what is driving the question, then I strongly suggest putting in 2 units verses one. With that kind of potential customer load a failure of a single unit could easily loose you in one day all you hope to save by going a "tad" bit smaller.

    Plumbing and HVAC are usually the hardest, most disruptive and costly to modify after the fact. Both can easily loose you thousands of dollars of business a day if they prove to have been designed, installed or chosen according to "low bid".
    I agree with what you're saying

    The last thing I want is to open a business and a month into business realize I don't have enough cooling

    So my initial question was not aimed at trying to 'get away' with something, since my oven is a three phase oven, and the building at the moment currently only has single phase, so senseless cost cutting is out of the question. The contractor has quoted me 6.5 tons, two units, one of 3 tons and one of 3.5 tons.

    thanks

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    34,586
    Friends had a 1000 sq ft pizza joint. 8 tons of cooling couldn't being to keep up. Why? Mostly because of no makeup air for the hood. It sucked in outside air so bad that in hot weather the A/Cs couldn't keep up, in cold weather it was very cold in there. With the hood and pizza ovens off, the 3 ton 1st stage could keep up.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Keokuk, IA
    Posts
    5,520
    Since you are going 3 phase, you might as well look at a single 3 phase packaged rooftop with an economizer . Less maintenance with a single unit and a 7.5ton will usually be 2 stage. Go with a heat pump to cut heating bills unless you have gas.

    You will want zoning with those ovens. So either use a integrated zone control system or go back to two units. Your split might be more like 4 tons in the kitchen and 2.5 or 3 in the customer area if that load calc is right.

    How many kw is the oven.? Is it open or sealed? As much as 1/2 might have to get removed by the account.


    Sent from my SGPT12 using Tapatalk 2

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    68,753
    6.5 tons sounds light.
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