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  1. #40
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    Apr 2002
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    11,808
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    It takes more energy to crack the water into HHO gas than you get from burning the gas.
    Its cool and all, but not very efficient.

    As for the "water powered" HHO burning cars. Its funny how they never show the massive load of batteries stuffed into the car, or talk about how long it takes or how much energy is used to charge the batteries.
    I am about to patent the perpetual lamp. I got a flashlight aimed at some photovoltaics and the photovoltaics power the flashlight

  2. #41
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    Nov 2004
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    I can jumpstart my e250 with my cordless drill battery, 18v dewalt

    Leak lock is not for plumbers

  3. #42
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    Aug 2004
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    North Richland Hills, Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnak View Post
    I am about to patent the perpetual lamp. I got a flashlight aimed at some photovoltaics and the photovoltaics power the flashlight
    I tried that when I was a kid, I was so disappointed when it didn't work.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  4. #43

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    I have actually looked into HHO quite a bit, and am interested to see where people go with it. The problem is that is suffers from the same problem hydrogen fuel does. It takes more energy to produce the fuel than you get from using the fuel.
    Until that problem is overcome, its usefulness will be limited



    You are getting fewer BTUH of heat from burning that 20 liters of HHO gas than you would by running a heating element with the same amount of electricity it is taking you to crack the water into HHO gas.

    Please don't mistake my comments as being negative about the technology. I personally find it to be very cool. I'm sure your project has been both entertaining and educational. You just have to understand that it is not an efficient way to heat, it certainly is more interesting than a heating element, and a great conversation piece though.



    Ok, the thing you have to understand is that the water is not the fuel, the HHO gas is the fuel. To crack the water into HHO gas, a large amount of electricity is required.
    Check out what I have circled on this add from Heat&Glo's site.


    Note that you need a 60A 220v electrical circuit to run this 31k btuh fireplace. Thats the same sized electrical circuit that would normally be used for a 10 kw electric heat package, and the 10 kw heat package would give you more heat.
    I personally think that fireplace is a neat product, but please don't mistake it for an efficient source of heat.



    If you are going to post a link to the site, at least read the site.

    http://www.eagle-research.com/browngas/myth/homuse.html

    The simple fact is that at this point in time, you cannot get more energy out of it, or even the same amount of energy, as you put in.
    Currently you get less energy out of it than you put in 100% of the time.

    The great thing is that there are very many people in many different fields doing tons of work and research on solving that problem.
    If and when they do solve it, I'll be right there in line to buy a HHO or hydrogen powered car, furnace, whatever.
    Are you looking at the full picture when it comes to hho heating the generator itself makes about as much heat as an electric heater and the heat form the gas is more heat created. Most people that look at the energy in and out don't consider the btu made form the generation of the Hydrogen oxygen gas. Thanks. I am not sure if this makes it a more efficient heater or not mine puts out around 108 when producing gas then when you burn the gas you get more. Only a question just wondering if this is in you recession of heat produced.

  5. #44

    furnace pro, heating in the wrong place?

    I have constructed a few HHO generators, and they produce quite a bit of HHO (im attempting to apply it to my truck), however they also are producing quite a bit of heat. Have you run into any overheating issues in the generator? Im using 2'' PVC with a 1 and 3/4 ss tube with a 1 1/2 ss tube inside seperated by pvc rings. The generator is running 12v at about 20-30 amps. The water is steady at about 100df, but the terminals and about 2 inches of the power wire are reaching temps around 300deg f!! i dont want to melt the pvc! have you had any issues similar to this?

  6. #45
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Centerville, Iowa
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    384
    Holy 5 year old thread, Batman.

    What the OP has is not a water fueled heater, or an HHO powered heater, it is a Rube Goldberg inspired electric space heater, and assuming the whole contraption is located in the conditioned space it provides exactly what any other electric resistance heater provides, 3.41 BTUs for each watthour consumed. Actually, it probably provides less due to the unwanted chemical reactions in the electrolyzer, imperfect combustion of the hydrogen, and plain system leaks.

    This guy should sell an "Infrared" electric cube heater or a fake "Amish" electric fireplace instead, at least then he would make some coin while scamming the public out of their money for yet another space heater.

    I laugh then cry every time someone mentions HHO or any of the other various gas-saver/over-unity devices, like a video I saw of a huge trunk sized electrolyzer using 1500 watts that only managed to make a lawnmower engine idle, that same 2HP worth of electricity could likely have powered an electric motor that would have spun that mower engine to destruction.
    To get the degree symbol on Windows hold down the Alt key and type 0176 on the keyboard number pad. It is also available via the character map, and on Windows 8.1 devices with a touchscreen via the on screen keyboard.

    There is no "E" in either BluVac or Blu-ray Disc.

    If you are the type where the painting is more important than the frame, or you just like movies, join me in listening to the widescreen.org podcast.

  7. #46
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    Aug 2004
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    North Richland Hills, Texas
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielthechskid View Post
    Holy 5 year old thread, Batman.

    What the OP has is not a water fueled heater, or an HHO powered heater, it is a Rube Goldberg inspired electric space heater, and assuming the whole contraption is located in the conditioned space it provides exactly what any other electric resistance heater provides, 3.41 BTUs for each watthour consumed. Actually, it probably provides less due to the unwanted chemical reactions in the electrolyzer, imperfect combustion of the hydrogen, and plain system leaks.

    This guy should sell an "Infrared" electric cube heater or a fake "Amish" electric fireplace instead, at least then he would make some coin while scamming the public out of their money for yet another space heater.

    I laugh then cry every time someone mentions HHO or any of the other various gas-saver/over-unity devices, like a video I saw of a huge trunk sized electrolyzer using 1500 watts that only managed to make a lawnmower engine idle, that same 2HP worth of electricity could likely have powered an electric motor that would have spun that mower engine to destruction.
    Yeah, it makes me want to /facepalm every time someone starts in on a discussion of stuff like this.

    I gave up following the over unity and zero point energy chuckleheads.
    When one of them comes up with an actual device that is available for public scrutiny, I'll pay attention again.

    And by public scrutiny, I don't mean "donate" thousands of dollars and get rewarded with an in person demonstration where you are not allowed to touch it or inspect it closely like one scam "charity" outfit does.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  8. #47
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    Jul 2007
    Location
    Mount Airy, MD
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    7,281
    Relocated the 5 year old thread to the "Fireplace" section of the site.

  9. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    PA
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    199
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Worthington View Post
    Relocated the 5 year old thread to the "Fireplace" section of the site.
    thanks

  10. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    S.E. Pa
    Posts
    6,192

    Cool

    Just so everyone knows HG launched the Aqueon as a novelty with a list price of about $50K. They only made about 3 or 4 and the last one sold for close to $70K. One was installed on a yacht belonging to a former HHT exec. Not practical at all. The flame is tiny and hard to see unless its dark because it is technically not a luminous flame. The hearth industry is built around a yellow tipped luminous flame because you want to see a 'natural' flame unlike the heating industry that is after combustion efficiency. Yes, this technology uses a lot of power and is Not cost effective.

  11. #50

    Efficiency is not the issue

    Why are you hung up on efficiency. As long as the gas generator is in the house, and your goal is to try to heat the house, this is exactly as efficient as using an electric heat strip. All the energy in the electricity used is consumed either in breaking the water into hydrogen and oxygen, or is turned into heat. None of the energy is lost (conservation of matter and energy). The energy consumed in breaking the water is released when it is burned. As long as it is all done in the house, all the energy from the electricity consumed is still in the house and all ends up as heat when the reaction is all done. The only thing that would prevent that is if the HHO didn't completely burn and you let the hydrogen float away.

    But you get a cool fireplace that doesn't need a vent, and you get a free humidifier effect in the process.



    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    I have actually looked into HHO quite a bit, and am interested to see where people go with it. The problem is that is suffers from the same problem hydrogen fuel does. It takes more energy to produce the fuel than you get from using the fuel.
    Until that problem is overcome, its usefulness will be limited



    You are getting fewer BTUH of heat from burning that 20 liters of HHO gas than you would by running a heating element with the same amount of electricity it is taking you to crack the water into HHO gas.

    Please don't mistake my comments as being negative about the technology. I personally find it to be very cool. I'm sure your project has been both entertaining and educational. You just have to understand that it is not an efficient way to heat, it certainly is more interesting than a heating element, and a great conversation piece though.



    Ok, the thing you have to understand is that the water is not the fuel, the HHO gas is the fuel. To crack the water into HHO gas, a large amount of electricity is required.
    Check out what I have circled on this add from Heat&Glo's site.


    Note that you need a 60A 220v electrical circuit to run this 31k btuh fireplace. Thats the same sized electrical circuit that would normally be used for a 10 kw electric heat package, and the 10 kw heat package would give you more heat.
    I personally think that fireplace is a neat product, but please don't mistake it for an efficient source of heat.



    If you are going to post a link to the site, at least read the site.

    http://www.eagle-research.com/browngas/myth/homuse.html

    The simple fact is that at this point in time, you cannot get more energy out of it, or even the same amount of energy, as you put in.
    Currently you get less energy out of it than you put in 100% of the time.

    The great thing is that there are very many people in many different fields doing tons of work and research on solving that problem.
    If and when they do solve it, I'll be right there in line to buy a HHO or hydrogen powered car, furnace, whatever.

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