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  1. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,915
    Quote Originally Posted by FurnacePro View Post
    I realize that my flame is still very inefficient at this point, but it is my flame and I'm kind of attached to it. LOL.
    Hey, as long as your having fun with it, thats all that matters.

    Just always remember, temperature has very little at all to do with actual heat content.
    HHO is kinda weird though, it has no fixed BTU value. If someone comes up with a catalyst that won't be burned out in short order, HHO may actually turn out to be an efficient heat source.
    The problem there is that at the really high combustion temperature it would have, there would be a ton of NOx and other nitrogen compounds being formed, which presents its own set of issues.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  2. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Eastern Washington
    Posts
    57
    My HHO generator is currently about 1/20 the size, and uses much less power than that of the 1000L HHO torch currently available for sale. While my flame is burning, I have registered about 2 to 3 amps on my 12 volt system. This is still enough to support sustained flame. I know others are testing units that run on 5v, 6v and even 24 and 48v systems with varying amperage. Other introductions to the mix is hot water vs cold water and on and on. In my experiments, I have found that while warm water (92F) does provide much higher gas output, 3cc's of common table salt provides the same result with cold (59F) water. The Amp draw with the warmer water is also much lower, but I can get that same low amp draw with cold tap water by introducing the 3cc's of table salt.

    What really blows me away is that the combustion is actually an implosion not an explosion resulting in the condensation of pure water. Now, if this water were re-introduced to the process, I'm sure that (even though I cannot test it) this water retains some energy which is re-introduced to the process making it more efficient. I have built an angular stainless hood over my fireplace to collect this condensation, I just am not sure at this point how I can test the results....... my lab is a stone age kinda thing!

  3. #16
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    2,729
    I know very little about hydrogen power, but all the codes are in place for us to have Hydrogen plants in our garages for our Hydrogen cars of the future.

  4. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Erie Pa
    Posts
    23
    OK so the Bubbler isn't actually the regulator because i have read that you can use water to regulate pressure and also what did you use for an orifice
    i have tried this experiment before and it is now sitting in the back of my shed i could never get the right size is it the same size as natural gas or propane.... i also experimented with a hydrogen powered IC engine same as a propane engine That ran from a "tank" of water in the back of the truck but came to the conclusion that i would have to figure out how to ceramic coat the inside of the cylinders and the pistons (at least the face) and rings to withstand the Temp formed inside the combustion chamber so what your doing is extremely interesting. and i would like to learn about what you have done thus far... i used a wall mount H n G Natural gas heater and a ton of spare orifices to test different sizes but i could never get the proper size and the flame was large and didn't seem right do you also use a variable resistor in line with the battery to control current and also the flow of gas ?? i would be grateful to hear your thoughts and see pictures if i could

    Thanks
    Just Learning
    Last edited by Just Learning; 02-21-2007 at 02:32 AM.

  5. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Eastern Washington
    Posts
    57

    My epiphany

    I started thinking at work today (i know, scary eh!).... What is the process for making gasoline? The long and the short of it is that during the process, hydrogen is used in the "upgrade" process of turning crude into gasoline. Why? Because the fuel, as with any hydrocarbon, is the hydrogen..... the crude is the medium by which the hydrogen combustion is ultimately controlled.

    So, in my generator, I have HHO (unchained hydrogen and oxygen atoms) which is natures most perfect ratio for efficient combustion. That is the reason why I get a beautiful flame but can only sustain it for minimal amounts of time before the pressure begins to drop across the system and I get a serious backflash. The hydrogen is burned off too quickly (I think someone already told me that before I was ready to listen!)... I think this is why the electrolysis process is working so well in a 40% mix with gasoline in a vacuum system - internal combustion engine. The gasoline slows the hydrogen combustion down just enough to make it inefficiently perfect for a more efficient ICE.

    Amazing amazing feakin amazing...... add syrup to the HHO and control the process... but what syrup?

    What do you all think? is hydrocarbon soup the only syrup that will work?

  6. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Erie Pa
    Posts
    23
    Well what about any oil.... Mineral oil, or what have you because i belive that the molecules in the oil attach themeselves to the (For lack of wording) "Air" or any thing else gaseous if properly atomized or am i completly wrong??

  7. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    61
    i think i remember adding HCl acid to the water in a chem class a few years ago... it made the "cracking" process go faster, but i dont think it'll help ur control problem...
    neat idea though, keep it up

  8. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Eastern Washington
    Posts
    57
    JL,

    I'll have to look into that. I think the R&D dept has some thinking to do.

  9. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Eastern Washington
    Posts
    57
    what about "thinning" the gas with compressed air?

  10. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Erie Pa
    Posts
    23

    Red face

    Hcl will eat the washers sepaerating the SS plates wont it unless the "Plastic" is actualy Teflon or equivalent right?? and wont it start to corrode the SS or is it too diluted to affect anything??? you can find Hcl Where... Car Batteries or is that Sulferic acid??? i cant remebmer

    and thining the gas with compressed air wont that lean it out too much???

  11. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Eastern Washington
    Posts
    57
    and thining the gas with compressed air wont that lean it out too much???
    I don't know JL. I'm thinking of an adjustable rate of compressed air. It will have to be massaged of course. I don't know, I'm just shooting from the hip here, but I think the conversation is heading in the right direction.

  12. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Eastern Washington
    Posts
    57
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Learning View Post
    Hcl will eat the washers sepaerating the SS plates wont it unless the "Plastic" is actualy Teflon or equivalent right?? and wont it start to corrode the SS or is it too diluted to affect anything??? you can find Hcl Where... Car Batteries or is that Sulferic acid??? i cant remebmer
    Good point JL, I know that hcl increases the fracturing process, but I'm not having a problem with that process. I have plenty of HHO gas from plain tap water with 3cc's of table salt, there's virtually no residue from the electrolyte. With plenty of gas and a good flame, I just want better control of the output. To extend the life of one lb of fractured water will allow for a greater more efficient harvest of it's available energy which as far as I can tell is somewhere in the 52-55kbtu/lb... at 8.3lbs/gal that's roughly 431,600btus/gal...... that might get a mention on the evening news eh?

  13. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Erie Pa
    Posts
    23
    Heh thats quite a bit there are what 91,500 Btu's in one gal of propane and propane (so I've been told) burns hotter than Natural gas so thats very good
    and its worth a spot on the news lol

    Well i guess the only way i can relate to extending the life of a fuel source is comparing it to a car as cars got newer and newer the manufactures started to "lean" out the Air/ Fuel mixture Ratio to increase fuel mileage what about introducing Pure Oxygen into the system in Minute amounts to get more complete combustion unless the combustion is allready at 100% ??
    Last edited by Just Learning; 02-22-2007 at 12:38 AM.

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