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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NEW YORK
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    58

    JCI METASYS conversion PMI N2 Trunk to NIE's

    We are confirming that the existing Metasys PMI NC's (N2) will be converted to NIE to view on the New Metasys system extended architecture.

    What are commons problems that can occur and that we should look at for within our facility operations.

    Thank you,
    BOB

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    343
    Well this will not fix any problem that already exists. The complete PMI system including the PMI workstation will still be required for a complete system. PMI is not certified for new PCs you can buy today. It will work however, it just takes a lot of work to learn how to do it.

    The NIE does not replace any of the OWS or NCM parts of your existing system. It just acts as a gateway between the NCM and the ADS. It does have its own webserver for access as any NAE would, but the user interface is likely to be installed through the ADS.

    If I were the owner I would insist they remove the NCM and install a NAE to replace it. Include a clause that JCI must duplicate all GPL and Command processes. There is really no reason to pile controllers on top of each other the way a NIE does. One exception to this would be if you had a bunch of DCM controllers doing something complicated. Then your NCM upgrade would involve replacing the DCM and that could get even more complicated. On the other hand those DCMs are really old and it is a good idea to plan for their replacement too.

    I really prefer the FX JCI devices so I would use an FX installer and stay away from the MSEA NAE, NIE, and ADS product altogether.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    459
    Smoke control processes can be an issue depending on different factors.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    459
    Also I agree with BillControls about the layering of an NAE on top of a NCM. Then you have to know both systems and troubleshooting is more difficult.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    343
    Quote Originally Posted by simux View Post
    Smoke control processes can be an issue depending on different factors.
    Yup that would be one spot to use the NIE. The Certified applications would make the whole picture different.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    18
    I would recommend getting rid of the PMI/M5 Workstation. The software is very old and JCI is not creating more features and patches for it. Also, it is not supported on Windows 7 or 8. JCI is not training their techs to work on these systems either, so support is getting a bit harder to find each year.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by CHAMBERS87 View Post
    We are confirming that the existing Metasys PMI NC's (N2) will be converted to NIE to view on the New Metasys system extended architecture.

    What are commons problems that can occur and that we should look at for within our facility operations.

    Thank you,
    BOB
    I think putting in an NIE is better than nothing and I'll help with migration to MSEA. If your PMI workstation dies you're not totally blind. You don't NEED your workstation but you'll want to keep it even if you shut it down. It'll be the only way to maintain backups, perform NCM downloads and JCBASIC and/or GPL maintenance. Can you be screwed if something else goes wrong and you don't have your PMI workstation? Well obviously.

    I agree with HVACControlTech that JCI isn't training on PMI any longer. Out of the JCI techs I know probably only 10% of systems techs knows PMI and maybe 40% of the service tech's know it... You should put together a phased plan to replace your NCMs with NAEs in the very near future. You're not the only facility with PMI of course. I still have 4 sites with at least a partial PMI system.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    459
    Sometimes sites have controllers that are not supported by an NAE. For example if you have DCM's then you are tied to an NCM,

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Madison, WI
    Posts
    19
    We have 6 NIE-8500s integrating over 100 NCMs and it took a few of them not working before JCI found the issue and now they are reliable. We use NIE-5500s to integrate High priority points. They are reliable. The only issue is the time between when the present value changes in PMI and when the present value changes in MSEA can be a couple minutes. We are slowly taking out NCMs and replacing them with NAEs. Every body thinks that going to somehting other than a JCI product is superior but they are only thinking about operators. If you want to change the program or go into commissioning mode on a JCI controller then ripping out an NCM and putting in an JACE now means you lose pass through capabilities and you now have two different vendors you have to call when it don't work. We have JACEs but not the JCI FX so maybe the FX with the N2 driver allows pass through in which case it would be OK. Tridium graphics, even the new ones, are sub standard compared to the MSEA advanced graphics. There is no simple way to make it all work unless you rip it all out and put in ALC. ALC is probably the simplest system to work on.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    383
    LOL

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    NEW YORK
    Posts
    58
    Thank you very much!

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