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  1. #27
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    Jan 2009
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    Keokuk, IA
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    I meant stay off the heat strips. In cooling you probably never use high stage except if you had to cool it down several degrees at once.



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  2. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by motoguy128 View Post
    I meant stay off the heat strips. In cooling you probably never use high stage except if you had to cool it down several degrees at once.



    Sent from my SGPT12 using Tapatalk 2
    Ok thanks Yeah I guess that is why 3 ton and sized for heating not cooling as per normal.

    A 3 ton 2 stage would probably be the best way to go.

    Another question, If I make 2 zones and the main zone requires< 15000 btus/hr where we will be most often, the other being a basement that is well insulated and have that set back to 65 or so, could a 2 ton serve this purpose? I mean can you put most of the output in this area?

    Jimmy
    Last edited by JimmyP; 04-19-2013 at 09:13 AM. Reason: spelling

  3. #29
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    Jan 2009
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    Keokuk, IA
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    Yes, there is one zoning strategy where you can undersize slightly is neither zone needs maximum capacity or are fully occupied at the same time... or if you can live with one zone being a little cooler in the really cold weather. You'll get quieter airflow smaller ductwork requirements and longer run times with the 2 ton unit. Modulating zone systm are nice for this because if you set one zone a lower temrpature, it will distribute heating proportionally and with Carrier Infinity, you can even just set one zone as "unoccupied" and use a large setback and it will automatically prioritize the primary zone.

    I like your way of thinking. I plan on adding zoneing on day on my downstairs for similar reasons. With a modulating zone system, you can also add even multiple smaller zones without needing a bypass damper. It will simply dump excess airlfow to the other zones. However, I would suggest sizing ductwork to the smallest zones to handle the minimum airflow if possible. WIth a 2 ton Infinity 2 stage unit, that's only about 350CFM.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    112
    Thanks for that infomation.

    That would be ideal for my situation.

    What we have is a second place in the country but spend 50% time there in the winter and 100% from Spring to Fall.That is what I was hopling for. It is usually just 2 of us that are there using the living area about 750 Sq ft and a loft open to below (<500sqft) with ceiling fans to move they air and even the heat. There are 2 bedrooms on the main floor if we have visitors on an occasional weekend. The basement ( once finished) can be set back but with enough heat to keep out the chill. 80 % of the time I would need one zone drawing and it is very unlikely that will be in the middle of the winter. And we have the Propane if necessary.

  5. #31
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    Jan 2009
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    Keokuk, IA
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    A finished basement set to 62F would have minimal heat loss. Another nice thing about zoning, is that in moderate weather, the basement may still need heat, but the upstairs with solar gain, almost none. Conversely, if your entertainign and cooking, the upstairs might need AC ,but the basement none. It also allows your visitors if they stay down there to customize their temperarature. So elderly that might want it 75F, can set it there without roasting everyone upstairs.

    If you can afford it and can easily isolate the ductwork branches, I would consider zoning the kitchen area as well. There's a lot of diversity since it has all of your appliances. ALso in early morning, it might be the first place you want ot warm-up, sicne you might not use the rest of hte house. Again, zoning allows smart strategies for setbacks without having to use auxillary heat. But beware, with highly insulated homes, they cool off and heat up splowly so a setback might only be 2-3F at most overnight. You use them mainly for comfort not energy savings.

  6. #32
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    Mar 2013
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    112
    Thanks again I probably would only want to set it back by that amount anyway. The Kitchen ,living ,dining area is all open, there is a hallway behind kitchen to 2bedrooms and a bathroom. 2, 120 sq ft bedrooms wouldn't need much heating anyway. they have thier own ststs now and set to 65.

    I need to read up more into the zoning options but I gather he infinity modulating dampers are probably the best way to go about using a 2 ton HP

  7. #33
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    Jan 2009
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    Keokuk, IA
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    I think Trane has a new modulating zone set-up as well. But I don't know much about it. Infinity has been out for some time now. I plan to add zoning to mine at a later date. If you get the Zoning version of hte standard controller or the touchscreen control, you can add zoning whenever you want later. It's plug & play. Carrier has a zoning goude you can probably find online. Try this: http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc.../zone-01dg.pdf . Its' a little dated in the specific equipment options, but the general information on how it works is good. Carrier no longer makes the HNA9 wit hhte 2 speed Bristol Compressor that ran in 2 directions, on for 50% capacity and the other for 100%. Great concept, but too many relaiability issues it seems, plus it can't change capacity on he fly, it has ot stop, wait I think 60 seconds then restart. The Trane XL20i with 2 compressors is betterconcept and the Greenspeed even better than that.


    Also look up the Infinity Touchscreen control.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    112
    Quote Originally Posted by motoguy128 View Post
    I think Trane has a new modulating zone set-up as well. But I don't know much about it. Infinity has been out for some time now. I plan to add zoning to mine at a later date. If you get the Zoning version of hte standard controller or the touchscreen control, you can add zoning whenever you want later. It's plug & play. Carrier has a zoning goude you can probably find online. Try this: http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc.../zone-01dg.pdf . Its' a little dated in the specific equipment options, but the general information on how it works is good. Carrier no longer makes the HNA9 wit hhte 2 speed Bristol Compressor that ran in 2 directions, on for 50% capacity and the other for 100%. Great concept, but too many relaiability issues it seems, plus it can't change capacity on he fly, it has ot stop, wait I think 60 seconds then restart. The Trane XL20i with 2 compressors is betterconcept and the Greenspeed even better than that.


    Also look up the Infinity Touchscreen control.
    Thanks for your help and knowledge. Would you recommend an Infinity 16 2 stage for zoning .I am still undecided on a 2 or 3 ton, if I use a 2 stage. Can you do zoning as well with the performance series 2.5ton

  9. #35
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    Jan 2009
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    Keokuk, IA
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    If you are happy with that Carrier Installer on their knowledge and quality of install, I would have them quote 3 options and include any Carrier Factory rebates. I'd quote for Infinity 16, 19 and Greenspeed, all 2 tons and compared all to an Infinity Air Handler and provide the standard zone controller and touchscreen controller.

    I found that with rebates, the price increase to the 19 was relatively small and worth it. They are both good units and very similar but the 19 is a little quieter and higher effciency with a little more heating capacity too. The price incrase to the fully modulating Greenspeed might suprise you. It could be less than you think. Again, rebates should be factored in. If your looking at zoning, the greenspeed is an even better choice. I think the minimum airflow might be as low as 250-300CFM and limited by the minimum speed of the blower motor.

  10. #36
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    Jan 2009
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    Keokuk, IA
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    I can;t remember if I mentioned it. But wit ha well insulated home that descent size, meaning small heat loss, you do have to read just expectations when sizing properly. Meaning that the home will not heat up and cool off slowly. I find that my home after even just a 2F recovery from an afternoon setback takes abotu 2 hours to equalize. Meaning all the interior mass including air and interior objects and surfaces have been warmed up to room temperature so that you now only matching just the actual conductive and radiant heat loss of the building.

    So if I have my downstairs set to 68F and I recover to 70F at 5PM, the system start slowly raising the temperature incrementally starting at 3:30PM by about 0.1F every 5 minutes. The system will upstage as needed. I find however that even after the air has reached setpoint, it may still be requiring maybe 26k BTU's to maintain temprature for the next hour, then 20k BTU the following hour, but the 3rd hour it only needs 15k BTU's to match the actual heat loss. that why with heat pumps, you wnat ot use minimal setbacks and if you use setbacks, you can't it to change temperature quickly and have to realize that it will have very , very long run times. that's good. Long run times are far more efficient.

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    112
    There is only one carrier installer in our area. I really don't know how good they are. I have corresponded via e-mail so far. I won't be back home for a month but I will ask for quotes on the infinity 15 16 and 19. as well as the greenspeed. The 15 is a single stage but comes in 2.5ton and if it has the same zoning capabilities I could have a balance point in one the main zone of 10F. The 16 is the next closest for a 2 ton I can have a balance point of 14Ffor that zone and 21 for the whole house if it is all heated at once to 70.

    That is good to know about the setback. I have read that it is best not to set back to much. How does yours perform at the 10 F temp?

    Thanks again

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    112
    My place could actually be calling for cooling at 25F if it is a sunny day. I have seen the inside temp climb to 78 without any heat on because of the windows. If I was set to 72 indoors how would that work when the evening comes and sun goes down. Would it auto cool to the 72 then switch to heating as it falls below

  13. #39
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    Jan 2009
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    Keokuk, IA
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    A single stage 2.5 will have a minimum airflow of about 680 in zoning vs 350 for 2stage 2ton. 525 for 3ton 2 stage.

    Infinity condensers can do low ambient cooling down to I think 0f without a special kit.


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