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  1. #40
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    [QUOTE=thermophysics;15615491]Jesus was an atheist - at least his morals were atheist. He popularised classical Greek atheistic ethics.

    Here is a Priest who somewhat agrees with me.

    http://ec.libsyn.com/p/1/a/7/1a78897...4&c_id=1779667[/QUO
    http://muslim-responses.com/The_Mess...sage_of_Jesus_

  2. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermophysics View Post
    Jesus was an atheist - at least his morals were atheist. He popularised classical Greek atheistic ethics.

    Here is a Priest who somewhat agrees with me.

    http://ec.libsyn.com/p/1/a/7/1a78897...4&c_id=1779667
    Jesus was an atheist??? I don't even have anyone left to swear to anymore. But, for the love of Clarence, you guys are koo-koo for coacoa-puffs.
    "You boys are really making this thing harder than it has to be". Me

    "Who ARE you people? And WHAT are you doing in my SWAMP!?" Shrek

    Service calls submitted after 3PM will be posted the next business day.

    I give free estimates [Wild Ass Guesses] over the phone.

    "Ain't nobody got time for that". Corny

  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tool-Slinger View Post
    Jesus was an atheist??? I don't even have anyone left to swear to anymore. But, for the love of Clarence, you guys are koo-koo for coacoa-puffs.
    Seriously, read the bible, he popularises ethics debated amongst the likes of the cynic sages of whom many were atheist. That is why earlier on in Rome's history of Christianity many Christians were converting over to Cynicism.

    The discussion audio I linked to is produced by London University's Institute of Philosophy - good arguments are given for Jesus having been a radical secular Humanist like any other atheist.

  4. #43
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    I think ThermoMark has studied his god Socrates to the point he's been dipping in the hemlock a bit too much.

    To clarify for Mark, I mean thermo-dude, Jesus Christ IS God! How can be be against himself? He created the world, you, me and everything that is to come. I think you've been hanging out in too many hooka parlours. You Progressive eliteist get so full of yourselves and what you feel is your intellectual superiority you lose touch with reason and reality. Perhaps a few Dr. Seuss books will get your perspective back.

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by hearthman View Post
    I think ThermoMark has studied his god Socrates to the point he's been dipping in the hemlock a bit too much.

    To clarify for Mark, I mean thermo-dude, Jesus Christ IS God! How can be be against himself? He created the world, you, me and everything that is to come. I think you've been hanging out in too many hooka parlours. You Progressive eliteist get so full of yourselves and what you feel is your intellectual superiority you lose touch with reason and reality. Perhaps a few Dr. Seuss books will get your perspective back.
    From Wiki:

    The name Cynic derives from Ancient Greek κυνικός (kynikos), meaning "dog-like", and κύων (kyôn), meaning "dog" (genitive: kynos). One explanation offered in ancient times for why the Cynics were called dogs was because the first Cynic, Antisthenes, taught in the Cynosarges gymnasium at Athens. The word Cynosarges means the place of the white dog.

    Some historians have noted the similarities between the life and teachings of Jesus and those of the Cynics. Some scholars have argued that the Q document, a hypothetical common source for the gospels of Matthew and Luke, has strong similarities with the teachings of the Cynics. Scholars on the quest for the historical Jesus, such as Burton L. Mack and John Dominic Crossan of the Jesus Seminar, have argued that 1st century CE Galilee was a world in which Hellenistic ideas collided with Jewish thought and traditions. The city of Gadara, only a day's walk from Nazareth, was particularly notable as a centre of Cynic philosophy, and Mack has described Jesus as a "rather normal Cynic-type figure." For Crossan, Jesus was more like a Cynic sage from an Hellenistic Jewish tradition than either a Christ who would die as a substitute for sinners or a Messiah who wanted to establish an independent Jewish state of Israel.

    Many of the ascetic practices of Cynicism may have been adopted by early Christians, and Christians often employed the same rhetorical methods as the Cynics. Some Cynics were actually martyred for speaking out against the authorities. One Cynic, Peregrinus Proteus, lived for a time as a Christian before converting to Cynicism, whereas in the 4th century, Maximus of Alexandria, although a Christian, was also called a Cynic because of his ascetic lifestyle. Christian writers would often praise Cynic poverty, although they scorned Cynic shamelessness: Augustine stating that they had, "in violation of the modest instincts of men, boastfully proclaimed their unclean and shameless opinion, worthy indeed of dogs." The ascetic orders of Christianity also had direct connection with the Cynics, as can be seen in the wandering mendicant monks of the early church who in outward appearance, and in many of their practices were little different from the Cynics of an earlier age.

    Cynicism (Greek: κυνισμός), in its original form, refers to the beliefs of an ancient school of Greek philosophers known as the Cynics (Greek: Κυνικοί, Latin: Cynici). Their philosophy was that the purpose of life was to live a life of Virtue in agreement with Nature. This meant rejecting all conventional desires for wealth, power, sex, and fame, and by living a simple life free from all possessions. As reasoning creatures, people could gain happiness by rigorous training and by living in a way which was natural for humans. The first philosopher to outline these themes was Antisthenes, who had been a pupil of Socrates in the late 5th century BCE. He was followed by Diogenes of Sinope, who lived in a tub on the streets of Athens. Diogenes took Cynicism to its logical extremes, and came to be seen as the archetypal Cynic philosopher. He was followed by Crates of Thebes who gave away a large fortune so he could live a life of Cynic poverty in Athens. Cynicism spread with the rise of Imperial Rome in the 1st century, and Cynics could be found begging and preaching throughout the cities of the Empire. It finally disappeared in the late 5th century, although some have claimed that early Christianity adopted many of its ascetic and rhetorical ideas.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cynic-Sage-S.../dp/160899953X

  6. #45
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    More from Wiki:

    Cynicism is one of the most striking of all the Hellenistic philosophies. It offered people the possibility of happiness and freedom from suffering in an age of uncertainty. Although there was never an official Cynic doctrine, the fundamental principles of Cynicism can be summarised as follows:

    - The goal of life is happiness which is to live in agreement with Nature.
    - Happiness depends on being self-sufficient, and a master of mental attitude.
    - Self-sufficiency is achieved by living a life of Arete.
    - One progresses toward Arete by becoming free from influences – such as wealth, fame, or power – that have no value in Nature.
    - Suffering is caused by false judgments of value, which cause negative emotions and a vicious character.

    Thus a Cynic has no property and rejects all conventional values of money, fame, power or reputation. A life lived according to nature requires only the bare necessities required for existence, and one can become free by unshackling oneself from any needs which are the result of convention. The Cynics adopted Hercules as their hero, as epitomizing the ideal Cynic. Hercules "was he who brought Cerberus, the hound of Hades, from the underworld, a point of special appeal to the dog-man, Diogenes." According to Lucian, "Cerberus and Cynic are surely related through the dog."

    The Cynic way of life required continuous training, not just in exercising one's judgments and mental impressions, but a physical training as well:
    [Diogenes] used to say, that there were two kinds of exercise: that, namely, of the mind and that of the body; and that the latter of these created in the mind such quick and agile impressions at the time of its performance, as very much facilitated the practice of virtue; but that one was imperfect without the other, since the health and vigour necessary for the practice of what is good, depend equally on both mind and body.

    None of this meant that the Cynic would retreat from society. Cynics would in fact live in the full glare of the public's gaze and would be quite indifferent in the face of any insults which might result from their unconventional behaviour.

    The Cynics are said to have invented the idea of cosmopolitanism: when he was asked where he came from, Diogenes replied that he was "a citizen of the world, (kosmopolitês)."

    The ideal Cynic would evangelise; as the watchdog of humanity, it was their job to hound people about the error of their ways. The example of the Cynic's life (and the use of the Cynic's biting satire) would dig-up and expose the pretensions which lay at the root of everyday conventions.

    Although Cynicism concentrated solely on ethics, Cynic philosophy had a big impact on the Hellenistic world, ultimately becoming an important influence for Stoicism. The Stoic Apollodorus writing in the 2nd century BCE stated that "Cynicism is the short path to virtue."

  7. #46
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    we all worship allah
    jesus worship allah
    Jesus said, "Surely, Allah is my Lord and your Lord"

  8. #47
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  10. #49
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    Lighten up a little kefah. This after all isn't an Islamic forum or web site. Give it a rest. Gees

    This forum is open to free exchange of ideas and discussion but you are turning it into a one man phraise "Alla" show.

    We all need a little rest here especially just after the savage attack on America the birth place of freedom and tolerance by savage intolerent radical Muslims in the name of Alla. Cut us some slack. Thank you, thank you very much

  11. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Lighten up a little kefah. This after all isn't an Islamic forum or web site. Give it a rest. Gees

    This forum is open to free exchange of ideas and discussion but you are turning it into a one man phraise "Alla" show.

    We all need a little rest here especially just after the savage attack on America the birth place of freedom and tolerance by savage intolerent radical Muslims in the name of Alla. Cut us some slack. Thank you, thank you very much
    This isn't a Christian forum either.

    How is what he's doing different than the other bible blather that goes on here?
    Please explain how there is a free exchange of ideas here, yet you seek to limit his?

  12. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by syndicated View Post
    This isn't a Christian forum either.

    How is what he's doing different than the other bible blather that goes on here?
    Please explain how there is a free exchange of ideas here, yet you seek to limit his?
    Funny I've never seen a Christian or anyone of another religion just propisize non stop like kefah.

    But you by the way come on here continously spouting anti Christian garbage trying to pick a fight.


    You go live in a closed Islamic country living under Sharia law and be forced to go to the Mosque 5 times a day to say your prayers instead of living in a free America. Thank you, thank you vety much

  13. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    You go live in a closed Islamic country living under Sharia law and be forced to go to the Mosque 5 times a day to say your prayers instead of living in a free America.
    But you present a false dilemma - there is no real dichotomy here - the best societies are those with no religions - those that don't even give a wink to Christianity.

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