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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
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    14,915

    They have had this system checked every spring since the house was built 8 years ago.

    I guess their regular guy thinks 0º SH and 0ºSC is ok...
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Posts
    348
    But it was working fine till you got here

    Did any damage to the system occur?

    -Mark
    RSES CM Member
    NCI Certified Air Balancer and CO/Combustion Analyst
    NATE Senior technician - Energy efficiency analyst and 7 other NATE Service certifications

    Never stop learning!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    In a boiler room
    Posts
    7,135
    But it worked for 8 years! This is usually what the HO says when you offer to fix a problem they haven't noticed......

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Western, KY
    Posts
    3,185
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    I guess their regular guy thinks 0º SH and 0ºSC is ok...
    Is that bulb zip tied onto the liquid line going into the txv?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    SouthEast NC ICW & Piedmont Foothills
    Posts
    7,635
    looks like an aire flo
    It`s better to be silent and thought the fool; than speak and remove all doubt.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
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    14,915
    Quote Originally Posted by mason View Post
    Is that bulb zip tied onto the liquid line going into the txv?
    No, it and the mounting clamp were zip tied to one of the lines going to the suction line header by ADP at the factory to keep them together during shipping.
    The installer neglected to thread the bulb to outside of the cabinet, and clamp it to the suction line.

    Manufacturers are damned if they do and damned if they don't when it comes to mounting sensing bulbs for factory installed TXVs.
    If they mount it, a high percentage of installers will over heat it when they braze the suction line in.
    If they don't mount it, an even higher percentage of installers won't take the time to mount it during installation.

    The installers don't read installation instructions, or the large warning label stuck to the front of the coil, either because they don't care, or can't read english.
    Most installers also don't remove any panels they don't absolutely have to, so there is little chance they would notice the TXV bulb in there.

    The years of previous service techs checking the system, and not finding this, is just plain old stupid and/or lazy.
    When I hooked up to the system, it was really fing obvious that it wasn't working correctly.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Western, KY
    Posts
    3,185
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    No, it and the mounting clamp were zip tied to one of the lines going to the suction line header by ADP at the factory to keep them together during shipping.
    The installer neglected to thread the bulb to outside of the cabinet, and clamp it to the suction line.

    Manufacturers are damned if they do and damned if they don't when it comes to mounting sensing bulbs for factory installed TXVs.
    If they mount it, a high percentage of installers will over heat it when they braze the suction line in.
    If they don't mount it, an even higher percentage of installers won't take the time to mount it during installation.

    The installers don't read installation instructions, or the large warning label stuck to the front of the coil, either because they don't care, or can't read english.
    Most installers also don't remove any panels they don't absolutely have to, so there is little chance they would notice the TXV bulb in there.

    The years of previous service techs checking the system, and not finding this, is just plain old stupid and/or lazy.
    When I hooked up to the system, it was really fing obvious that it wasn't working correctly.
    That there was no attempt to install it didn't even cross my mind, I have seen poorly installed ones but at least there was effort.

    Similarly around here I've run into piston issues though, incorrect size and even 3-4 where the piston wasn't even in, low subcool and superheat with same story that it's been looked at multiple times.

    I think the reason it's missed is that lots of techs are putting the low side on and if it's above freezing and the line feels cold they call it good.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    North Richland Hills, Texas
    Posts
    14,915
    Quote Originally Posted by mason View Post
    Similarly around here I've run into piston issues though, incorrect size and even 3-4 where the piston wasn't even in, low subcool and superheat with same story that it's been looked at multiple times.
    Same here, on systems that were installed when the house was built, it is virtually guaranteed that the piston will be the wrong size, unless the indoor unit happened to come with one that matches the outdoor unit.
    Often the correct piston is still in its little bag, stuck to the outdoor unit.
    I've run into systems that had been in operation for >10 years with no piston at all.
    If more government is the answer, then it's a really stupid question.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    3,377
    I have seen the TXV bulb tied to the hi side with duct tape. It seems the power head was losing its charge and. Well you know.........
    Whatever works. Trouble is, or was that it didn't.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Western, KY
    Posts
    3,185
    Quote Originally Posted by mark beiser View Post
    Same here, on systems that were installed when the house was built, it is virtually guaranteed that the piston will be the wrong size, unless the indoor unit happened to come with one that matches the outdoor unit.
    Often the correct piston is still in its little bag, stuck to the outdoor unit.
    I've run into systems that had been in operation for >10 years with no piston at all.
    Haha the little bag outside with the piston still in it is a little bit worrying but sometimes it works out.

    One of my favs/not favs was last summer when a coworker diagnosed a compressor at an apartment building as "not pumping correctly", the condenser got swapped with a dry r-22 but on start up the measurements were off so the installer called the office, I get sent over and it has high suction, low head, low superheat, low subcool. I call the other tech and ask him what he found originally, high suction, low head with no other readings.... great. I had already found another unit at this apartment with out a piston earlier in the year. Get back to the shop and talk to my manager in his office to avoid anyone's embarrassment and he just gives me a blank stare and finally says he'll handle it from there, I asked all the other guys about a month later and no one went back on either of the calls to do any work on the pistons, guess it fell in "the units doing all it can" category.

    I ended up talking to the other tech and installers about why the readings were that way and gave the other tech a fixed orifice sliding chart for superheat because he didn't have one.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    3,852
    Is this the same house with 10 ventilators on the roof?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Beautiful, Philadelphia, the City of Brotherly Love!
    Posts
    1,096
    Somewhat like the bulb I found clamped to the discharge line of a heat pump today. The unit also contained one of those new discharge liquid dryers. The owners wanted me to figure out why their electric bill shot up $600.

    The totally hilarious part was the guy who did the work got confused at this 30 unit condo building working on the wrong unit. No wonder he couldn't get the unit to work on a call of the thermostat. These folks spent most of the winter in Florida.

    Not sure exactly why he did all of this work as the compressor was not changed. I guess he figured the factory left out the discharge dryer so he was going to make the world right one unit at a time.

    Some nasty guy also borrowed a start kit out of one of my customers units, he was too lazy to route the wires of the bad part as nicely as they were originally and of course the big tip off was forgetting to put the electrical cover back on.
    “You don't get paid for the hour. You get paid for the value you bring to the hour.” Jim Rohn

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