York YHJF 2.5 ton Vs Trane 15I 2.5 ton

[JimmyP]

I am more inclined to pick the York , it is easier to find all the expanded performance data for them. I would like to know more about the trane but I can't seem to fine the performance data so i can get a balance point.

Any one have the tables?

Thanks.

Jimmy

[RyanHughes]

What indoor model are you pairing the Trane with (full model #)?

[JimmyP]

That is the problem I don't have any numbers for the Trane. I was thinking the TAM 7 but I have no performance numbers to compare

[RyanHughes]

Here you go.

http://www.trane.com/Commercial/Prod...ARIREF=5021598 4TWX5030B1/TAM7A0B30H21

http://www.trane.com/Commercial/Prod...ARIREF=5021599 4TWX5030B1/TAM7A0C30H31

[JimmyP]

Thanks

[dan sw fl]

Here you go.

http://www.trane.com/Commercial/Prod...ARIREF=5021598 4TWX5030B1/TAM7A0B30H21

http://www.trane.com/Commercial/Prod...ARIREF=5021599 4TWX5030B1/TAM7A0C30H31

Addressing use of 2.5 ton XL15i with 1,200 CFM [ARI 5021599] for a calculated 24,000 BTU/HR at 10'F.
One might expect a Balance Point near 20'F ( +/- 4'F) if heat loss calculation is accurate within 10%.
No heat loss calculation is KNOWN to be accurate within 10%
without a measured infiltration and known window characteristics.

See attachment for "visual explanation".

Also, heat loss at 40'F is half the capacity of this 2.5 ton heat pump,
so one may guess run times to be near or < 50% when the Outside Air is > 40'F.

[JimmyP]

Thanks Dan

If the load calculation is close to accurate it seems to be a good choice with a 3kw Aux heat to supply 8000 btu's/hr when needed.

I have added 25% to the numbers I get with HVA calc and come up with 27000 heat loss @ 20 F
I am also thinking of going with a 3 ton 2 stage so more heating at high and sufficient cooling in low stage. Would that be OK or too oversized.
Would that be enough to take the chill out when the system defrosts?
Someone if finally suppose to show up here next week and do a load calculation.

Jimmy

[dan sw fl]

Thanks Dan

If the load calculation is close to accurate it seems to be a good choice with a 3kw Aux heat to supply 8000 btu's/hr when needed.

I have added 25% to the numbers I get with HVAC calc and come up with 27000 heat loss @ 20 F
I am also thinking of going with a 3 ton 2 stage so more heating at high and sufficient cooling in low stage. Would that be OK or too oversized.
Would that be enough to take the chill out when the system defrosts?
Someone if finally suppose to show up here next week and do a load calculation.

Jimmy

I suspect your calc is probably accurate.
However, infiltration is nearly Always somewhat of an Unknown.

3 Ton __ First stage balance point = ~ 30'F.
3 Ton Second stage balance point = ~ 15'F.
.:. Minimal use of heat strips.

On whether a 3 Ton is a good overall heat pump selection, I am a bit ambivalent.
It would seem to be appropriate and economical for Winter conditions.

Maybe you'll get some Other opinions here from techs who know.

[JimmyP]

Thanks Dan

Which 3Ton did you use for the plot?

[dan sw fl]

Thanks Dan

Which 3Ton did you use for the plot?

Simplification [10 minutes work instead of 35 minutes] ... 3 ton 2nd Stage is assumed = 1.17 * data for 2.5 Ton XL15i
Conceptually IT IS GOOD.
I doubt that 3 Ton 2 stage data would yield a Balance Point more than 1.5'F different than presented for 2nd stage.

Similarly, First stage of 3 Ton is = 1.9 Ton which is probably a little lower than an actual 3-Ton 2 stage unit ( might be ~2.1 T).
But, you 'got the picture'.

That's WHY I say: It's not rocket science, But IT IS SCIENCE with "Some Art".

If one wished to make it complex, I am going to tell one to break a year into 6 minute intervals ... 87,600 intervals.
K I S S

[beenthere]

Size the Aux to the heat loss, or you could be very sorry if the heat pump breaks down during older weather. And a part is on back order.

If your going to get a 3 ton 2 stage, look into the Trane 20i.

[JimmyP]

Size the Aux to the heat loss, or you could be very sorry if the heat pump breaks down during older weather. And a part is on back order.

If your going to get a 3 ton 2 stage, look into the Trane 20i.

I have 2 propane fireplaces. one in basement and one on main floor if I need Aux heat. I really only want the AUX heat for the heat pump to take the chill from a defrost cycle. I am trying to install this with a 120 Amp electrical panel. HP uses 20 Amps. AH 15 without aux heat or 32 amps with 24000BTU heat strip. Though if I have to the electrical upgrade will be done if required.

[jtrammel]

If I were in your shoes I would do a home energy audit and fix issues with the house and duct system rather than spending the extra on higher end equipment and get tge load down to 2 tons and use a single stage 14/15 seer York LX IMHO

[dan sw fl]

If I were in your shoes I would do a home energy audit and fix issues with the house and duct system rather than spending the extra on higher end equipment and get tge load down to 2 tons and use a single stage 14/15 seer York LX IMHO

If his calculation is appropriate, I don't see much room for improvement.

I do recognize the cost increase from SEER 15 to 16 [ one stage to 2 stage] is likely more significant than from SEER 13 to 15 (both single stage).

[JimmyP]

If I were in your shoes I would do a home energy audit and fix issues with the house and duct system rather than spending the extra on higher end equipment and get tge load down to 2 tons and use a single stage 14/15 seer York LX IMHO

Thanks for your imput.

There is no duct work in place yet. The house in new only 3 years old and well insulated so not much room for improvement there. Using HVAC Calc at 14F I get a heat loss of 23000. this x 25% in case of errors is 28700, I have a sensible heat load of 21300 .The 2.5 York has a sensible cooling load of 21000 - 23000. A 2.5 seems like the right choice. I was thinking of 3 ton 2 stage because I live in eastern canada and would need more heating than cooling even though the numbers are similar for loss and gain.

Jimmy

[SBKold]

Thanks for your imput.

There is no duct work in place yet. The house in new only 3 years old and well insulated so not much room for improvement there. Using HVAC Calc at 14F I get a heat loss of 23000. this x 25% in case of errors is 28700, I have a sensible heat load of 21300 .The 2.5 York has a sensible cooling load of 21000 - 23000. A 2.5 seems like the right choice. I was thinking of 3 ton 2 stage because I live in eastern canada and would need more heating than cooling even though the numbers are similar for loss and gain.


Jimmy

York has some neat hyper heating programs that can be setup with a 2stage 3 ton. Basically can lock compressor in full stage and lower indoor fan to deliver hotter supply temps.

[JimmyP]

York has some neat hyper heating programs that can be setup with a 2stage 3 ton. Basically can lock compressor in full stage and lower indoor fan to deliver hotter supply temps.

Thanks . I did not know about locking the compressor for heat only. I have heard of hyper heat from those models though. Any more information on this would be appreciated.
The York 3 ton YXH can lower my balance point to 13F. It was one of my considerations if I went with a 3 ton. The average winter low temperature in Feb here is 15F (-9.5 C) I have to look at pricing. I just think that maybe the 2.5 ton YHJF would be enough. This gives me a balance point of 21F.

Jimmy

[JimmyP]

SBKold

What models would zoning be an option for. If i could do zoning with a 2 ton I could have a balance point of 17 degrees for just the main floor which we could do on real cold days (and 26F for the whole house when it is above 26 I can heat the downstairs). Can I do zoning with the 2.5 Ton models?. The problem I see with that is if downstairs isn't heated then the house heat loss goes up.

[SBKold]

I just returned from the factory here in Kansas where they make the York units and they really impressed me with how much quality they put in the products. I will be installing many more after seeing the quality.

[dan sw fl]

I just returned from the factory here in Kansas where they make the York units and they really impressed me with how much quality they put in the products. I will be installing many more after seeing the quality.

I am under the impression that York does Not have a real strong presence in the Florida residential market.
+ I don't know WHY?

$$$ in distribution set-up?