What religion will your children be in 30-40 years - Page 38
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  1. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Well now I can see Kefah being very angry over what has happened to his country since we first attacked the Iraqi Army in Kuwait. That IMHO never should have happened. Only Iran and Israel benefited from that terrible mistake.

    We have lost over a trillion dollars and still counting over this total fiasco and the rest of the world in the trillions also over 911, the world wide war against Islamic terrorists, security costs, wars in Afghan and Iraq and chaos over the whole world and especially in N Africa and the ME with the Arab Spring.

    Now after all that the US Military is trying to prevent further chaos in Iraq and if Kefah can't see and understand that then he is too far gone with hate and bitterness to think rationally.

    I will give you my take on this whole sorry episode. Saddam was told that we wouldn't intervene if Iraq attacked Kuwait by our State Department. I think this was set up so when he invaded Kuwait we would have an excuse to overthrow him.

    He was Israel's worst enemy. He was bankrolling the PLO and every time Israel bulldozed down a Palestinian home he would pay for the cost of a new one. When he did invade we drove him out but the coalition didn't want him overthrown so we destroyed his army and drove him out of Kuwait to the delight of Iran.

    Then the second war was purely a war to over throw him with a flimsy excuse and destroy Israel's biggest enemy once and for all. Israel and Iran were ecstatic over this. We had no interest served by this or the first war. We have been screwed ever since and so has the whole world especially the ME except for Israel.

    Saying all this I want to say that I consider the Quran a book designed to destroy the non Muslim civilized world and turn us all back to the 7th century and I now have to think that Kefah is no friend of the US if he desires to kill American soldiers. Anyhow that is how I feel about this whole sordid affair. Thank you, thank you very much
    I think you sumed up quite well, and much of I would agree with.

    Forgetting the koran, (because that one will never be resolved), Imagine you were in Kefah shoes, you were living your life (although not perfect), in relative safety, now he being controlled by an occupying force, and there is death all around, it would seem he is getting from all sides. What would do, to rid the US of those who kill those around you.

    Plus remember that a US soldier (along with many of the allies) are there by choice, they are not conscript soldiers.

    Kefah has always separated combatants from non combatants.

    I am not defending the killing of allied forces.

  2. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    I think you sumed up quite well, and much of I would agree with.

    Forgetting the koran, (because that one will never be resolved), Imagine you were in Kefah shoes, you were living your life (although not perfect), in relative safety, now he being controlled by an occupying force, and there is death all around, it would seem he is getting from all sides. What would do, to rid the US of those who kill those around you.

    Plus remember that a US soldier (along with many of the allies) are there by choice, they are not conscript soldiers.

    Kefah has always separated combatants from non combatants.

    I am not defending the killing of allied forces.
    I'm only interested in whether there is anything in the Koran that could be of interest. They say their prophet was something of a village idiot who could neither read nor write yet he still managed to dictate the Koran and this is supposed to be proof of divine intervention - who else could cause an idiot to produce such a book? That's their argument - not mine.

    Well, Socrates also could neither read nor write - but, my god, between him and Plato they produced some tremendous philosophisings, especially on ethics, which caused the following quote to arise during the last century "The safest general characterization of the philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato." -Alfred North Whitehead

    But as for the Koran - well, of what was said about Mohamed I'd say only the first part was correct.

  3. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermophysics View Post
    I'm only interested in whether there is anything in the Koran that could be of interest. They say their prophet was something of a village idiot who could neither read nor write yet he still managed to dictate the Koran and this is supposed to be proof of divine intervention - who else could cause an idiot to produce such a book? That's their argument - not mine.

    Well, Socrates also could neither read nor write - but, my god, between him and Plato they produced some tremendous philosophisings, especially on ethics, which caused the following quote to arise during the last century "The safest general characterization of the philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato." -Alfred North Whitehead

    But as for the Koran - well, of what was said about Mohamed I'd say only the first part was correct.
    I do not care what the books says directly, but on how influence people in the real world, goods and bad guys alike.

    However with all posturing you have missed one blaring obvious scenario.

    Which is based upon science and logic, and because of this i believe that there certainly is the potential for this option to have occurred on multiple occasions.

    I will let you ponder on what it is and how it could also answer a number questions.

    Hint i do not believe in God, in how it is described in the great books.

  4. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Well now I can see Kefah being very angry over what has happened to his country since we first attacked the Iraqi Army in Kuwait. That IMHO never should have happened. Only Iran and Israel benefited from that terrible mistake.

    We have lost over a trillion dollars and still counting over this total fiasco and the rest of the world in the trillions also over 911, the world wide war against Islamic terrorists, security costs, wars in Afghan and Iraq and chaos over the whole world and especially in N Africa and the ME with the Arab Spring.

    Now after all that the US Military is trying to prevent further chaos in Iraq and if Kefah can't see and understand that then he is too far gone with hate and bitterness to think rationally.

    I will give you my take on this whole sorry episode. Saddam was told that we wouldn't intervene if Iraq attacked Kuwait by our State Department. I think this was a set up so when he invaded Kuwait we would have an excuse to overthrow him.

    He was Israel's worst enemy. He was bankrolling the PLO and every time Israel bulldozed down a Palestinian home he would pay for the cost of a new one. When he did invade we drove him out but the coalition didn't want him overthrown so we destroyed his army and drove him out of Kuwait to the delight of Iran.

    Then the second war was purely a war to over throw him with a flimsy excuse and destroy Israel's biggest enemy once and for all. Israel and Iran were ecstatic over this. We had no interest served by this or the first war. We have been screwed ever since and so has the whole world especially the ME except for Israel.

    Saying all this I want to say that I consider the Quran a book designed to destroy the non Muslim civilized world and turn us all back to the 7th century and I now have to think that Kefah is no friend of the US if he desires to kill American soldiers. Anyhow that is how I feel about this whole sordid affair. Thank you, thank you very much
    I dont know if we will ever know 100 percent what our true motives were for attacking Iraq, especially the second time. The first time, i still believe was warranted and was to keep Saddam from gaining too much control or the worlds oil. Yes the Israeli influence on our government was certainly a factor. Bush's ego maybe, Bush's stupidity maybe, money for defense contractors ie Cheney's Haliburton maybe, mis information on Iraqis WMD maybe. I dont think we will ever know for sure what really drove us into it. The only thing I know for sure was I was against going in the second time from the beginning.

    The part of your post that I put in bold is what really concerns me. I'm not going to pretend to know what type of life the typical Iraqi lead under Saddam. But it was probably at least relatively stable and safe as long as you didn't F with him. Now after we tear the country apart, I'm thinking you can barely go outside without worrying about your life. You've probably had freinds and family killed or seriously wounded. So, its not hard to imagine why a typical Iraqi would be pissed at us. The thing that really causes me pause is that Kefah, who really seems like he is probably more of a moderate than an extremist would like to see American soldiers killed. If he feels like that imagine what the extremists think. Whatever our reasons were we should of stayed out of it, the second time.

  5. #486
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    It would seem the cure is worse than illness.!!!

  6. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    I do not care what the books says directly, but on how influence people in the real world, goods and bad guys alike.
    Yes, that's another topic entirely, you're probably more interested in sociology and anthropology. I'm not. My interest is epistemology and its underpinning logic.

    Like taking two friends to see the Concorde in South Africa - one is an accountant and the other an engineer. The accountant starts going on about how much thing must have cost and how it might have been financed from inception through to production. The Engineer looks at the accountant funny and then starts off about the engineering problems that needed to be overcome which the accountants concern for money had completely overlooked. The accountant explained that he does not doubt there were many engineering problems - just that he is only interested in talking about the finances.

  7. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by newoldtech View Post
    Most Americans will find this statement chilling and quite offensive. But considering what Bush and his followers ended up doing to your country, I can honestly say if I were you, I would probably feel the same way.
    i said that because any one in world will be proud of killing his country invaders
    don't take it personally


    Kefah can i ask you if you are a Sunni?
    yeah im Sunni

  8. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by glennac View Post
    Well now I can see Kefah being very angry over what has happened to his country since we first attacked the Iraqi Army in Kuwait. That IMHO never should have happened. Only Iran and Israel benefited from that terrible mistake.

    We have lost over a trillion dollars and still counting over this total fiasco and the rest of the world in the trillions also over 911, the world wide war against Islamic terrorists, security costs, wars in Afghan and Iraq and chaos over the whole world and especially in N Africa and the ME with the Arab Spring.
    i have the right to be angry
    us invasion destroyed my country
    and made it the place for terrorist group
    we didnt hear about al qaeda in iraq in saddam time


    Now after all that the US Military is trying to prevent further chaos in Iraq and if Kefah can't see and understand that then he is too far gone with hate and bitterness to think rationally.
    they did that after they destroy my country
    then in the beginning and in the last
    they are invader
    so what you want me to do
    you want me thank them

    I will give you my take on this whole sorry episode. Saddam was told that we wouldn't intervene if Iraq attacked Kuwait by our State Department. I think this was a set up so when he invaded Kuwait we would have an excuse to overthrow him.

    He was Israel's worst enemy. He was bankrolling the PLO and every time Israel bulldozed down a Palestinian home he would pay for the cost of a new one. When he did invade we drove him out but the coalition didn't want him overthrown so we destroyed his army and drove him out of Kuwait to the delight of Iran.

    Then the second war was purely a war to over throw him with a flimsy excuse and destroy Israel's biggest enemy once and for all. Israel and Iran were ecstatic over this. We had no interest served by this or the first war. We have been screwed ever since and so has the whole world especially the ME except for Israel.
    you are right man

    Saying all this I want to say that I consider the Quran a book designed to destroy the non Muslim civilized world and turn us all back to the 7th century and

    quran is inspired by allah to prophet muhammed to be guide for human to live in better life



    I now have to think that Kefah is no friend of the US if he desires to kill American soldiers. Anyhow that is how I feel about this whole sordid affair. Thank you, thank you very much
    im not friend to anyone invade my country from us army or other armies
    but surely that not mean the whole US army who is US or Germany or pacific ocean etc

  9. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermophysics View Post
    I'm only interested in whether there is anything in the Koran that could be of interest. They say their prophet was something of a village idiot who could neither read nor write yet he still managed to dictate the Koran and this is supposed to be proof of divine intervention - who else could cause an idiot to produce such a book? That's their argument - not mine.
    you are the idiot who not understand properly what i posted

    i didnt say that my prophet Mohammed was idiot

    Muhammad didn't know reading or writing
    and if someone wasn't know reading or writing
    that surely not mean he is idiot

  10. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbar View Post
    I think you sumed up quite well, and much of I would agree with.

    Forgetting the koran, (because that one will never be resolved), Imagine you were in Kefah shoes, you were living your life (although not perfect), in relative safety, now he being controlled by an occupying force, and there is death all around, it would seem he is getting from all sides. What would do, to rid the US of those who kill those around you.

    Plus remember that a US soldier (along with many of the allies) are there by choice, they are not conscript soldiers.

    Kefah has always separated combatants from non combatants.

    I am not defending the killing of allied forces.
    thank you man

  11. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by newoldtech View Post
    I dont know if we will ever know 100 percent what our true motives were for attacking Iraq, especially the second time. The first time, i still believe was warranted and was to keep Saddam from gaining too much control or the worlds oil. Yes the Israeli influence on our government was certainly a factor. Bush's ego maybe, Bush's stupidity maybe, money for defense contractors ie Cheney's Haliburton maybe, mis information on Iraqis WMD maybe. I dont think we will ever know for sure what really drove us into it. The only thing I know for sure was I was against going in the second time from the beginning.
    nice view


    The part of your post that I put in bold is what really concerns me. I'm not going to pretend to know what type of life the typical Iraqi lead under Saddam. But it was probably at least relatively stable and safe as long as you didn't F with him. Now after we tear the country apart, I'm thinking you can barely go outside without worrying about your life. You've probably had freinds and family killed or seriously wounded. So, its not hard to imagine why a typical Iraqi would be pissed at us. The thing that really causes me pause is that Kefah, who really seems like he is probably more of a moderate than an extremist would like to see American soldiers killed. If he feels like that imagine what the extremists think. Whatever our reasons were we should of stayed out of it, the second time.
    im proud of killing invader
    even from Russia or China or anywhere
    im not proud of killing us army in Europe or USA or pacific
    only who are invade my country

  12. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by kefah View Post
    you are the idiot who not understand properly what i posted

    i didnt say that my prophet Mohammed was idiot

    Muhammad didn't know reading or writing
    and if someone wasn't know reading or writing
    that surely not mean he is idiot
    It's not about what you posted - it's what is said between the lines.

    What is written in the Koran is nothing anywhere near as interesting as what was written in either the works of Plato or Aristotle.

    If Mohamed was no idiot then surely, even if he could not read or write, he could recite and discuss Greek science.

    This he surely did. How do I know? Because all the science in the Koran is exactly the same as the ancient Greek science with no additions whatever. But also the Koran's mistakes in science are identical to the Greek mistakes in science.

    Either Mohamed got his science from the Greeks or Allah taught the Greeks, a 1000 years earlier, exactly the same falsities he taught the those in Medina in Mohamed's time.

    You choose.

  13. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermophysics View Post
    It's not about what you posted - it's what is said between the lines.

    What is written in the Koran is nothing anywhere near as interesting as what was written in either the works of Plato or Aristotle.

    .
    surely its not same
    because its the word of god
    not human

    If Mohamed was no idiot then surely, even if he could not read or write, he could recite and discuss Greek science.



    You choose
    he wasn't scientist
    he inspired these miracle by allah




    This he surely did. How do I know? Because all the science in the Koran is exactly the same as ancient Greek thescience with no additions whatever. But also the Koran's mistakes in science are identical to the Greek mistakes in science.
    they are not the same
    i have question
    when the ancient Greek
    time
    at which year

    Either Mohamed got his science from the Greeks or Allah taught the Greeks, a 1000 years earlier, exactly the same falsities he taught the those in Medina in Mohamed's time.

    Allah is not in need for Greek science

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