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02-01-2007, 05:58 PM #1
Need help on refigerated warehouse...
I have a beer distributor that is reworking a cold vault. Many years ago it
was a cold vault kept at 38 degrees, and is well insulated. For the last
20 years, it was just storage. Now they want to refigerate it again, but
only want to keep it at 68 degrees F.
Demensions are 78' x 71' x 16' tall. It is well insulated with 10" walls,
and metal insulated electric doors.
When it was kept at 38 degrees, it had 2 20 ton singer refer units, but
they are stripped beyond use.
I was thinking one 20 ton unit should do, but am worried about short
cycling. They do have propane fork lifts going through there alot, that
should make this one unit run longer. What do you think.
02-01-2007, 07:22 PM #2Professional Member
- Join Date
- Aug 2002
have your local wholesale house do a load calc on this space. Give them all the details.
When I approach a project like this, I take pictures cause there is always stuff you forget when you do your field survey walk thru.
And the pictures, you can study at your leisure. If you got one, use a video cam instead.
02-01-2007, 10:12 PM #3
do a load calc and spec out the equipment. This isn't that hard to do. I wonder why you had to even ask. Haven't you ever done this? If you don't know how, have some one show you how, so you know from here on out.
I never let some guy at the wholesaler do a calc. If I have to do one, I only trust me to do one. That way I know exactly what is what."The only real security that a man can have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience and ability." Henry Ford
02-02-2007, 01:19 AM #4
Yes I have done a load calc, but problem is propane fork lifts going
throught there alot. You know how much heat a propane fork puts
out, stand behind one.
I am also worried about the unit cycling too much. During the summer
months when it is 90 degrees or more, no problem. However when it
is 60, or 70 outside, unit will most likely cycle 2-4 times an hour, not
good for a reefer unit.
Since my post I have decided to go with one 20 horse unit, because
piping, and electrical are already there for it. If it is not enough, I do
think it is though, we can add a second unit where there is already
piping and electrical.
The big kicker is the propane fork lifts, I stoped by there earlier, and
counted fork lifts going through there 11 times in 20 minutes. One
heck of a heat load. I have asked several other techs about this,
and the fork lifts give them a curve ball also.
02-02-2007, 02:21 AM #5Regular Guest
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
really rough ball park
without heat load calculation
short answer, yes 1 20 ton would do.
02-02-2007, 07:46 AM #6
my software takes into account fork truck activity.
go to Keeprite website.
If your not very sure, I'd not be so quick to decide so fast. A mechanical engineering firm who specializes in this sort of thing could be brought in for about 400 bucks to help you with the load.
You miss this and it's your a$$.
I take care of a beer warehouse. And I don't know about you, but it's on my a$$ if that warehouse does not stay with in tolerance of a half a degree per the Brewery requirment.
I know all too well about the way beer warehousing setpoints change too. You must account for in your equipment set up, the ability for this equipment to stage down and up and do it effectively to adjust properly, smoothly to load changes."The only real security that a man can have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience and ability." Henry Ford
02-02-2007, 06:03 PM #7
These jobs can get a lot more complicated than they first appear. I remember back in the 1970's when Anheuser-Busch first started pushing their Controlled Environment Warehouse (CEW) thing with their distributors. It was all about trying to extend the shelf life and ship fresher beer. Bohn got a heck of a lot of that business back then.
The concept was to cool the warehouse space to roughly what the outdoor dewpoint was at any given time so that they could have the product at the lowest temperature possible without having it get all sweaty and damp, soaking the cardboard packaging, when it goes out on the trucks for delivery. This way the storage area may require 68ºF in July and 38ºF in December.
I'm wondering if this job isn't intended to do the same....except they forgot to tell you about that. It would surely steer me away from a single unit approach.
02-02-2007, 08:01 PM #8
and we have to keep the bud light happy.."The only real security that a man can have in this world is a reserve of knowledge, experience and ability." Henry Ford
02-02-2007, 09:56 PM #9
Got my studies, and pricing and met with them today. Since cold vault
was wired, and piped for 2 20 ton units, that is what we are going to
install. During cold season run one unit, during summer run both units.
This way they have a backup unit if one bites the dust.
During summer they have to keep at 69 degrees, durning cold
months 55 degrees.
They were happy with this setup, and liked prices.
02-02-2007, 10:07 PM #10