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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    115

    Waterfurnace/GeoComfort E060 Balance Point - The results

    Note: Data will be added on this post only.

    As some may know, calls to the aux heat strips on this unit can be disabled via SW2-5 without affecting the W1 call that shuts off /bypassed the de-super water heater (DW).

    Why do I care: To know how the home is performing, thus to better decide how much money to spend, if any, to improve it vs how much I might be wasting on aux heat strips. As well, it establishes a baseline for tracking the results of changes. Wind is a complication.

    Why might you care: Baseline for crude comparison against your own system, and some have asked for the data.

    Other benefits: I'd thought for a time this would allow setback programming, but maybe not. You get so spoiled w/these things you forget how slow HP's recover, and close to balance point recovery is MIA. We shall see. I won't get many colder days. Once I have a better handle on this I may try heating Zone 4 (un-insulated basement).

    Target temps/Z (zone)
    Z1 - main floor - 1,500sq. 74f
    Z2 - master - 500sq. 73f
    Z3 - 2nd floor - 1,200sq. 73f
    Z4 - basement - 2,000sq. 70f (often unheated/"out". Duct loss etc holds 67f

    Results:

    Time . . OT . . Wind . . Load Sq' . . . . Status
    24 hr . . . . . . . . . . . . zoned "In"/
    CST. . . . . . . . . . . . . possible)

    ----- --- ----- ---------- -----------------------------------
    23:00 . . 05f . 290@6 . 3200/5200 . . All zones@target temps, Y2 w/int. upshift to Y1
    01:20 . . 04f . 290@8 . 3200/5200 . . Z1 down 1f, steady Y2 right now, no W1
    03:15 . . 03f . 300@3 . 3200/5200 . . Z1,2, and 3 down 1f, Y2, no call for W1 (aux) yet, imminient.
    08:00 . . 13f . ?? . 3200/5200 . . Z1-3 down 1, W1. Z4 turned on.
    19:00 . . 22F .200@12 5200/5200 . . Z1-3 down 1, W2, and Z4 only 67.


    Present thinking:

    Nightime Y2 balance point in low wind, 3200/5200 load appears to be apprx 4f.
    W1 (bypassing DW) will deliver roughly 9% more BTU wo/ heat strips. (per WF.. Is this true?)
    69 degree temp offset from apprx 54000 btu w/available 60,000 suggests balance point of -03f (assuming linear home performance).
    Last edited by danf58; 01-31-2007 at 08:37 PM. Reason: data add

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    115
    Crum, Crud, scruby buttons, even SHUCKS!

    So much for the best of laid plans.

    1) I don't think GeoComfort is correct. I believe SW2-5 set to off also locks in DW. This as I saw no change in system performance after W1 as called (see data) and should have. DRATS

    It gets worse:

    Around 7:30 this am, or 12 hours ago, I said "hm,, 13f ot, house is down 1 degree all around, and it's going to be in the 20's today. I think I'll turn heat up the basement.

    Uh-huh. 12 hours later I shut it back off. It's 22f OT, the basement is a whole whopping 67f, and Z1-Z3 are down 1.

    I'm not sure what that means, but I know it's bad!

    I wonder if the basement is being presurized and just blowing hot air out the flue. Whilst drawing cold air in from the 2nd floor air leaks. Hmm. So more air flow then return..

    Darn it. I knew once I tackled the basement and the 2nd floor air leaks I was gonna struggle.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    115
    Time . . OT . . Wind . . Load Sq' . . . . Status
    24 hr . . . . . . . . . . . . zoned "In"/
    CST. . . . . . . . . . . . . possible)

    ----- --- ----- ---------- -----------------------------------
    23:00 . . 05f . 290@6 . 3200/5200 . . All zones@target temps, Y2 w/int. upshift to Y1
    01:20 . . 04f . 290@8 . 3200/5200 . . Z1 down 1f, steady Y2 right now, no W1
    03:15 . . 03f . 300@3 . 3200/5200 . . Z1,2, and 3 down 1f, Y2, no call for W1 (aux) yet, imminient.
    08:00 . . 13f . ?? . 3200/5200 . . Z1-3 down 1, W1. Z4 turned on.
    19:00 . . 22F .200@12 5200/5200 . . Z1-3 down 1, W2, and Z4 only 67.
    21:30 . . 0f .310@6 . 3200/5200 . . Z3 1 down, Y2, no aux


    Wind seems a big factor, SA seems a factor, something wrong w/basement.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    N.E. KS
    Posts
    717
    Dan,

    I think I told you in one of the other posts that I thought that dw would not stage off. did you try just shutting it off with the switch on the cabinet front?

    You could always add a relay based off of w1 call that would turn dw off.

    Another thing, if you want to run with no resistance heat, drill 5 more wells and add a second unit. It will probably come on when outside temps are around 0* and that should help down to about -15* OAT before you need more heat.
    Last edited by mdharris68; 02-04-2007 at 04:15 AM.
    Some people know the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    115
    Md:

    As always, thanks.

    I did get a copy of my well map. Yep, 5 wells.

    DW does turn off. Lets see, that would mean I was wrong when I said I was wrong....

    Anyway, I assumed since the DW pipe was quite hot @ the exit by the WF that it was still delivering heat. And it is. Thats not what happens when DW is bypassed. Upon futher talks w/Sean @ GeoComfort I realized all DW off does is shut off the water pump that re-circs the water. There is no way to actually stop it from being in the exhanger heat path. Which is a surprise, but...

    I've checked pretty carefully, that pump motor is off when SW2-5 flipped to off and W1 is calling.

    I've been working more on tighting the house a bit. We've had several -5 days and the house has been down to maybe 71 in the am. But still only heating 3200/5200. I've got to have a open someplace upstairs as this house is just sucking air from all kinds of opening on the lower 2 floors.

    Running w/out aux isn't really the goal. It's really to learn about how the house is working and what is and isn't OK. Really, I've learned quite a few things. I suspect I'll be out of cold weather before I get to implement and test all the fixes, but we'll see.

    atb, dan

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    115
    newer data:

    Furnace doghouse airleaks fixed
    Even w/42RH reported no frost on windows.. wonder what that means?
    SW2-5 turned back on. Turns out it permanently shuts off DW. Not good.

    Time . . OT . . Wind . . Load Sq . . . . Status.....RH inside
    24 hr . . . . . . . . . . . . zoned "In"/
    CST. . . . . . . . . . . . . possible)

    11:59 PM..015f..170@9..3200/5200..Y1 steady...z1-3 @ 70 and holding..42RH (w/kids home)

    might be borderline to y2 calls, master ceiling fan forced a Y2 for some reason.

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