Hot water hook-up for geo-thermal install - Page 2
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  1. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by frankspinz View Post
    I'm thinking maybe the plumber reversed the pipe connections at the HW tank or the preheat tank. There are no markings on the water tanks I can use to verify which pipe should be plugged in where !?

    Model: http://www.giantinc.com/english/prod...c-standard.htm

    I've looked at the documentation and the only way I've seen to differentiate the hot water outlet from the cold water inlet is that the outlet should be on the same side as the drain valve .
    Can you post a pix of the plumbing from the HP to the tank?
    Genius = The guy who can do anything...except make a living!

  2. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by danf58 View Post
    I'm surprised there's any value to installing one w/o the second tank. In fact, I'd have thought it mildy bad. I'm sure the second tank will pay for itself, and rather quickly so it seems a no brainer to me..

    I'm using an E60 w/a 75 gallon has, not hooked up, feeding a 50 gallon gas, hooked up, feeding another 50 gallon gas, hooked up. I'm fairly confident I can't run out of hot water, and I've certainly tried..
    You will find that an electric tank used as a storage tank is far more efficient then a gas tank. The gas tank waterheater has a hole up the middle of the tank and it will convect air from temperature rise and cool off the tank rather quickly. Use an 80 gallon electric for your storage tank and if you want to go even farther insulate the 80 gallon electric storage tank. It will maximize your efficiency.
    Genius = The guy who can do anything...except make a living!

  3. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by frankspinz View Post
    Thanks, if that is the case the plumber inverted the preheat tank hook-up. I'll have him reverse the connections in the hopes it solves this issue for me ! I'll post the outcome ...
    Give your plumber a copy of the piping diagram for the desuperheater.
    Genius = The guy who can do anything...except make a living!

  4. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mongo3037 View Post
    I am in the process of having a Waterfurnace EO60 5 ton installed in our new house. I had previously read on this forum that it is a good idea to have a second water tank (without electric) connected tothe desuperheater for additional water storage capacity. Any comments as to feasability of this setup and specifics, ie; tank size, plumbing configuration, etc, would be appreciated. Also, any other tips or suggestions on installation or setup are welcomed. Tks John
    Put in the biggest storage tank you can. We recommend an eighty gallon electric tank, (not wired in )for storage. it is much cheaper to buy then a super store tank. Follow the recommended installation instructions provided by the manufacturer of your heat pump.
    Genius = The guy who can do anything...except make a living!

  5. #18
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    Feb 2006
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    91
    Quote Originally Posted by geodude View Post
    That is not is not a recommended install practice by waterfurnace. The reason is IF the burner lit up,the intake of water from the dip tube will be heated from the burner and possibly turn off the desuperheater pump. When the pump limit sensor sees 120 degrees fahrenheit, it will turn off the pump. Look at the installation instructions. Fossil fueled single tank systems are not recommended.
    We don't have a waterfurnace unit, it's ClimateMaster. I didn't see anything in the manual about not using such a setup with gas hot water tanks. Anyway, it seems to work fine - the gas consumption goes way down in winter. The "dip tube" is a good 8" below the burner anyway so I'm not sure how it would see any hot water. Of course, all that said, it always makes sense to go with the manufacturer's instructions.

    Paul in Montreal.

  6. #19
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    Apr 2005
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    NE PA
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    Independent of the brand, adding a second non powered tank piped in-front of the regular hot water heater will maximize the benefit of the geo hot water generator. Using a single tank will work, but the warm to hot water that you are circulating reduces the amount of heat that you can transfer. a separate tank will act as a "tempering" tank to preheat the water to the regular heater. Being at a lower temp reduces the chance that it will get hot enough to shut down (stat in the geo unit). Every BTU you put in the water is a BUT you are not paying for. Besides squeezing out the most heat, a second tank also increases the capacity of warm water available.

    Both solutions work, but two tanks is better. Disadvantage is it will cost more to install.

    Just a note, ClimateMaster install manuals show both single and double tank hook-ups. In the install manual, it states "If a gas, propane, or oil water heater is used, a second preheat tank must be installed (Figure 15)." Further the manual comments "Typically a single tank...is used to limit installation costs and space. However, a dual tank, as shown in figure 15, is the most efficient system, providing the maximum storage and temperature source water to the HWG."

    paul
    Last edited by tecman; 02-16-2008 at 10:53 AM.

  7. #20
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    oregon
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyropaul View Post
    We don't have a waterfurnace unit, it's ClimateMaster. I didn't see anything in the manual about not using such a setup with gas hot water tanks. Anyway, it seems to work fine - the gas consumption goes way down in winter. The "dip tube" is a good 8" below the burner anyway so I'm not sure how it would see any hot water. Of course, all that said, it always makes sense to go with the manufacturer's instructions.

    Paul in Montreal.
    Paul, I'm certified in both brands, they both recommened against it. Your full potential of the desuper heater will not be reached. It will work as you have it installed, but not to its full potential.
    Genius = The guy who can do anything...except make a living!

  8. #21
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    Feb 2008
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    Montreal, Qc, Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodude View Post
    How old is your unit?
    The entire instalation is brand new ...

  9. #22
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    oregon
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    Quote Originally Posted by frankspinz View Post
    I'm thinking maybe the plumber reversed the pipe connections at the HW tank or the preheat tank. There are no markings on the water tanks I can use to verify which pipe should be plugged in where !?

    Model: http://www.giantinc.com/english/prod...c-standard.htm

    I've looked at the documentation and the only way I've seen to differentiate the hot water outlet from the cold water inlet is that the outlet should be on the same side as the drain valve .
    We have the same problems with some plumbers in our area. They get confused because it is out of the norm for them. We have a start up tech work with the plumber to make sure the lines to the HP and between the tanks are piped right.
    Genius = The guy who can do anything...except make a living!

  10. #23
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    Feb 2006
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    91
    Quote Originally Posted by geodude View Post
    Paul, I'm certified in both brands, they both recommened against it. Your full potential of the desuper heater will not be reached. It will work as you have it installed, but not to its full potential.
    You're right, we're not getting the full potential but at the time it was installed there wasn't space for the buffer tank (long story). Anyway, in winter, our gas consumption goes down to about Can$1.85 a month (when the weather is cold) so it's hard to see how it could get much less than that for the amount of hot water we're using At that low a consumption, it would take decades to pay back the cost of the buffer tank. One day when there's the time/money/space, I'll put in buffer tanks and hook them up to solar panels - but more to provide a source of auxiliary heat rather than hot water (as we obviously can't be using that much at the moment). I have in mind a mini Drake's Landing ( see http://dlsc.ca for a really neat interseasonal storage system in Alberta using vertical boreholes and arrays of solar collectors).

    Paul.

  11. #24
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    oregon
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    Quote Originally Posted by pyropaul View Post
    You're right, we're not getting the full potential but at the time it was installed there wasn't space for the buffer tank (long story). Anyway, in winter, our gas consumption goes down to about Can$1.85 a month (when the weather is cold) so it's hard to see how it could get much less than that for the amount of hot water we're using At that low a consumption, it would take decades to pay back the cost of the buffer tank. One day when there's the time/money/space, I'll put in buffer tanks and hook them up to solar panels - but more to provide a source of auxiliary heat rather than hot water (as we obviously can't be using that much at the moment). I have in mind a mini Drake's Landing ( see http://dlsc.ca for a really neat interseasonal storage system in Alberta using vertical boreholes and arrays of solar collectors).

    Paul.
    It would probably go down a lot more with a buffer tank. If the returning water to the desuper heater is hot (120 deg far.) your pump will shut off. With a buffer tank that possibility is eliminated. You may recognize more energy savings and pay off the buffer tank sooner. The tank can be 40 gallons or more, just get an electric tank ( don't wire it up ) and wrap it up in insulation. Don't use a gas tank, the hole up the middle creates a draft and will cool of the tank rapidly.
    Genius = The guy who can do anything...except make a living!

  12. #25
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    Feb 2008
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    Montreal, Qc, Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by geodude View Post
    We have the same problems with some plumbers in our area. They get confused because it is out of the norm for them. We have a start up tech work with the plumber to make sure the lines to the HP and between the tanks are piped right.

    I discussed the hookup issue with my plumber. He had indeed inverted the hot & cold piping on the storage tank. The hookup has been corrected and all the mysterious problems have disapeared. We are very pleased ! Thanks everyone for your input !

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