Carrier I-Vu BacNet VAV

[turbo50mike]

We are doing a project with the newer Carreir VAV system 'I-Vu' with BacNet.

On the VAVs there are two dials (as pictured), just wondering if these are for setting up the address.

Previously with the BacNet MS/TP controllers I've worked with on McQuay, the address was setup by using software, not a dial or dip switch.

Anyone familiar with these, we'd like to address them now while we're wiring them so we don't have to climb back up there.

(Any other tips or hints with the I-Vu VAVs is appreciated, also since this is our first setup like it).


Thanks in advance!

MJB

[wolfdog]

http://www.commercial.carrier.com/co...RD1811,00.html

[Dallas Duster]

http://www.commercial.carrier.com/co...RD1811,00.html

Good info looks like it is on page 12 of the install book.

[tleyden]

I just finished retrofitting a whole hospital vav system with these. I can confirm that the two dials you are referring to are in fact used to address the controllers. There is a 1's and 10's dial for addressing. And then in the IVU Open you can establish what 1600 network your device will be part of. Also, I ran into having to check the default baud rate jumper on all of my controllers. I believe Carrier uses 76.8kbps unlike Johnson which is a slower kbps. Are you using the Rnet sensors? There is also a jumper used for those as well. Good luck.

[turbo50mike]

Thanks for all the help, Wolf, Dallas, and Tleyden.

Yeah, it's coming along, waiting on sparky to get us some power so we can program them.

It won't really be on an open network yet. But we are going to tie them into the rooftop units that will also have a BacNet IVu controller in it.

Question or two for you Tleyden...

(1) Do we need to install the termination device on the first and last controller as recommended, or is that for more elaborate systems (we only have 8 VAVs on one system, and 5 each on two other systems).

(2) The VAVs came with a supply air sensor - Normally (i.e. on other systems) we put this sensor before the VAV, but it sounds like the way this is worded that sensor goes after the VAV and electric re-heat coil.

Thanks in advance!

[ascj]

Thanks for all the help, Wolf, Dallas, and Tleyden.

Yeah, it's coming along, waiting on sparky to get us some power so we can program them.

It won't really be on an open network yet. But we are going to tie them into the rooftop units that will also have a BacNet IVu controller in it.

Question or two for you Tleyden...

(1) Do we need to install the termination device on the first and last controller as recommended, or is that for more elaborate systems (we only have 8 VAVs on one system, and 5 each on two other systems).

(2) The VAVs came with a supply air sensor - Normally (i.e. on other systems) we put this sensor before the VAV, but it sounds like the way this is worded that sensor goes after the VAV and electric re-heat coil.

Thanks in advance!

I know I'm not Tleyden.....but I'll but me 2 cents in.

Why are you breaking the com up into three trunks with only 18 devices?

Yes BacNet trunks should be properly terminated and biased, no matter how large.

Stand alone analog Vav's used a sensor in the primary air for switch over purposes.......but with DDC the switch over is normally controlled by a networked point and you install a sensor in the secondary discharge air for monitoring purposes.

[turbo50mike]

Ascj - I believe their thought was to have each trunk of VAVs communicate directly to the rooftop that is supplying air to them.

They are not 'that' close to each other either, and there is no front end in this building yet, so not sure if they need them linked together unless you think there is some benefit.

[ascj]

Ascj - I believe their thought was to have each trunk of VAVs communicate directly to the rooftop that is supplying air to them.

They are not 'that' close to each other either, and there is no front end in this building yet, so not sure if they need them linked together unless you think there is some benefit.

Well once you get a front end.....you will need 3 com ports for three separate trunks. And you will have to run them all back to where ever the front end resides. Why not just link them now and have to only bring one one wire back to the future front end and you will only need one com port?

[turbo50mike]

I see....I will advise and see if they'll do a change order. Thanks! Certainly easier to run it now with everything open...

[tleyden]

Thanks for all the help, Wolf, Dallas, and Tleyden.

Yeah, it's coming along, waiting on sparky to get us some power so we can program them.

It won't really be on an open network yet. But we are going to tie them into the rooftop units that will also have a BacNet IVu controller in it.

Question or two for you Tleyden...

(1) Do we need to install the termination device on the first and last controller as recommended, or is that for more elaborate systems (we only have 8 VAVs on one system, and 5 each on two other systems).

(2) The VAVs came with a supply air sensor - Normally (i.e. on other systems) we put this sensor before the VAV, but it sounds like the way this is worded that sensor goes after the VAV and electric re-heat coil.

Thanks in advance!

1) From my experience I have always used the BT485 terminators, I am not sure how the COMM would work without these installed. I don't think there is too much more of a cost involved by adding them.

2) Typically we would monitor our primary air source, in this situation and I think you will see on the graphic that the sensor is going to show you what your reheat is doing. So its pretty much serving as a monitoring point and a troubleshooting aid to see what your vav with reheat is supplying to the space it is serving. On a side note, you can always add your discharge air temp from the primary air source via a bacnet point that is exposed. The point would look something like bacnet://address of device/point (i.e. bacnet://1610101/ai:2). This can be added to the graphic and can be used in a custom program. This is one of the huge benefits of bacnet the ability to share a point without having to lets say have multiple outside air sensors.

Also, one final note. Carrier does not favor T taps at all. If this is a new bus you will have to daisy chain the physical loop and can utilize mstp over ip for connecting to other networks. this is where the ivu open comes into play. But it sounds like you will just be using one network and a usb router that will be connected to a computer using field assistant. I would definetely look at hvac partners website for more info. Good luck, if you have any other questions, I will try my best to answer them.

[jmcgreevey]

I had a hell of a time getting linkage working properly on my first setup. I don't remember what the problem was, so hopefully you have an easy time. you can do T's on the carrier system as long as you use a repeater at the T. considerably less costly to run wire and you also don't have to worry about whether the data is passing through more than four of them if you end up needing repeaters due to line length or devices per segment. make sure you address all the devices in the proper order for linkage to work. that can be irritating if you forget.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2

[turbo50mike]

Should be doing startup soon....Where can I get the 'SpongeBobs'??

Also - McGreevy - Are you saying the daisy-chain has to go in the order of the VAV #'s?

The longest string only has 8 VAVs...Will that be an issue? Not sure if it's wired in that fashion.

[jmcgreevey]

the physical order of the devices as they are connected doesn't matter but they have to be addressed with the master as the highest address and the bypass as the next lowest address below the master and all the slave controllers addressed in consecutive order below them. it occurs to me that my setup was vvt not vav but I think this still applies for linkage of either type.

Sent from my SCH-R530U using Tapatalk 2

[kontrolphreak]

Should be doing startup soon....Where can I get the 'SpongeBobs'?? Carrier or ALC (ALC Part# BT485)

Also - McGreevy - Are you saying the daisy-chain has to go in the order of the VAV #'s? No

The longest string only has 8 VAVs...Will that be an issue? Not sure if it's wired in that fashion. As long as it is in a daisy-chain configuration it does not matter what order the controllers are in. For trouble shooting it helps if the comm is run sequentially so if controller X is the last one communicating you'll have a general idea where the potential issue may be. Otherwise make sure you have excellent as-builts of your comm buss installation..

kontrol out

[turbo50mike]

kontrol out

Thanks, Kontrol!!

the physical order of the devices as they are connected doesn't matter but they have to be addressed with the master as the highest address and the bypass as the next lowest address below the master and all the slave controllers addressed in consecutive order below them. it occurs to me that my setup was vvt not vav but I think this still applies for linkage of either type.

I think you're reffering to the Carrier 3v 'VVT', not the BacNet I-vu VAV.

I hated that 3V with the 'linkage coordinator' nonsense. Trane's VariTrac system is sooo much easier to setup/use/program for a simple changeover-bypass system.