Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 27 to 39 of 42
  1. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    3,415
    "They are the ones wanting to be handed 15 years of experience and knowledge, they are the ones who have to go the extra mile to earn it.

    I'm not getting paid extra to teach people

    To be honest, it is nearly impossible for me to wrap my head around a helper thinking he is entitled to a journeyman's time, knowledge, and experience."


    I find it more than a little backwards that a lead or journeyman could wonder how an apprentice could feel "entitled" to be trained; then in the same breath feel "entitled" to get extra pay for training him. Perhaps we need to distinguish between a helper (as just anyone off the street and not necessarily looking to make a career of it) and an apprentice (one who has invested in and completed over a thousand hours of training and has the paper and certs to show for it). I would think the latter should be taken more seriously and treated as a potential asset to the company as he has made a considerable effort just to get to the opportunity to be trained in the field. It's certainly up to him to follow thru with the right attitude and ethic...but he's come this far.

    It hardly takes fifteen years of experience to teach someone the order of operations on an install or to always grap scrap and no longer needed tools and equipment when you are headed back to the truck, as well as anticipating what might be needed next. Nor does it take years of experience to teach a new person to recover the old gas, disconnect old equipment, set and level the new, remove schrader cores, connect to existing lines or run new, make a whip low voltage, run a gas line, connect new flue etc etc etc. This is all pretty easy stuff most of the time.

    Don't get me wrong - your fifteen years of experience is invaluable...but only to yourself if you don't pass it on.

    Can you at least honestly tell us that if you had a younger you come along, every bit as dedictated and willing as you were, that you would start training him correctly from day one?

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    190
    Quote Originally Posted by mason View Post
    Umm... he's saying he got fired because he used the ladder SAFELY and another mechanic got on the top rung. So... He passed.
    Where does he say the other mechanic used the top rung? If he's using rung correctly, he was on an extension ladder. The other tech probably extended the ladder up a few feet and used it correctly, or Danny Z is 5' tall and the other tech was 6'4.

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,663
    Quote Originally Posted by Carbon View Post
    Where does he say the other mechanic used the top rung? If he's using rung correctly, he was on an extension ladder. The other tech probably extended the ladder up a few feet and used it correctly, or Danny Z is 5' tall and the other tech was 6'4.
    It would seem the second guy was not afraid to put his life on the line for his Buddy and or employer [stupid move} also, not too afraid to inflate his ego with the "look what i can do" mentality. I can't stand working around big macho ego types, makes me want to puke.
    My name is TooCoolforschool and I am a chronic over charger.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    d'Iberville, Miss.
    Posts
    51
    I wake up each day wanting to learn something. At least one thing. More often than not, I learn bunches of stuff.
    Don't waste a day.. Above all else, Be Safe! Don't kill yourself.
    Be able to wake up tomorrow. Keep learning.
    Good Luck on the job search.

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Tenn
    Posts
    139
    Quote Originally Posted by dannyz View Post
    hello my name is danny z. and i just grduated hvac school from the referigeration institute in manhatten. i went to a union shop and the first week went fine. the second week i was in a commercial building with a supervisor and mechanic and we changing filters in the airconditioning systems and i was going slow up and down the ladders and two filters where so high in the ceiling i could not reach them and i did not feel comfortable on the top rung of the ladder so the other mechanic had to change them. so after i go back to the shop the guy who hired me just said you had your hands in your pockets and you are not fit for this company and would not give me any explanation or second chance. i do not have experience in this field and maybe should i try referigeration? i am looking for a career but i am not used to ladders yet i am a hard worker and fast learner. would appreciate advice even if may have been my fault of not just going on the ladder??
    My peers and I often joke about unions, and I find it hard to believe that the union would ever fire anyone for simply not doing some part of the job. That said, seriously, if you work on air conditioning you need to get comfortable with ladders. I would think that there must be more to the story than you're telling us, yet, ladders are a part of our line of work. I haven't been more than two stories up, but, you really need to work on getting more comfortable on ladders.

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Dublin, CA
    Posts
    121
    Quote Originally Posted by hurtinhvac View Post
    "They are the ones wanting to be handed 15 years of experience and knowledge, they are the ones who have to go the extra mile to earn it.

    I'm not getting paid extra to teach people

    To be honest, it is nearly impossible for me to wrap my head around a helper thinking he is entitled to a journeyman's time, knowledge, and experience."


    I find it more than a little backwards that a lead or journeyman could wonder how an apprentice could feel "entitled" to be trained; then in the same breath feel "entitled" to get extra pay for training him. Perhaps we need to distinguish between a helper (as just anyone off the street and not necessarily looking to make a career of it) and an apprentice (one who has invested in and completed over a thousand hours of training and has the paper and certs to show for it). I would think the latter should be taken more seriously and treated as a potential asset to the company as he has made a considerable effort just to get to the opportunity to be trained in the field. It's certainly up to him to follow thru with the right attitude and ethic...but he's come this far.

    It hardly takes fifteen years of experience to teach someone the order of operations on an install or to always grap scrap and no longer needed tools and equipment when you are headed back to the truck, as well as anticipating what might be needed next. Nor does it take years of experience to teach a new person to recover the old gas, disconnect old equipment, set and level the new, remove schrader cores, connect to existing lines or run new, make a whip low voltage, run a gas line, connect new flue etc etc etc. This is all pretty easy stuff most of the time.

    Don't get me wrong - your fifteen years of experience is invaluable...but only to yourself if you don't pass it on.

    Can you at least honestly tell us that if you had a younger you come along, every bit as dedictated and willing as you were, that you would start training him correctly from day one?
    I think there is a misunderstanding here. I have trained over 10 people through my career, so far. I never said I did not train. I do teach them thoroughly and freely from day one. If someone has worked under me for 6 months, they would leave with a decent basis for being a residential installer sans the A/C side. The A/C side of residential would take a fair bit longer to teach, but even so they should be somewhat competent if lacking experience after a year working under me.

    The ones that successfully learned under me were the ones who worked hard and did not feel entitled to my time. The ones that were not successful, started talking **** about me to others after a year, saying they could do it better, were given a truck to prove it, and utterly failed. Not to mention, since they talked **** about me, they did not get my support after they stopped being my apprentice. So when they learned that being on your own and having to make all the calls was not as easy as I made it look, they had burned the bridge with me and eventually got fired for incompetence and because I refused to teach them further.

    The ones that were successful are the ones who were grateful for my time and effort teaching, because once they worked on their own, I was willing to fill all the holes in their knowledge and help them out when they make a bad judgement call.

    That is why I don't understand the comments about being entitled to learn. No one is entitled to it. I also never said I was entitled to getting extra pay for training. I said that I was not getting compensated for training the person, so I had no inherent obligation to do so. That I (or any journeyman) take the time to teach should be seen as a bonus to be grateful for, not something to be expected.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,663
    A big ego does not make a good technician but it will make a lot of enemies. Being humble the the right amount of knowledge and open mindedness is just as important as being trained to do a job. If one has a fear of heights wouldn't that be considered along the lines of a disability, in other words being in a union, or team atmosphere, his mates would give him jobs where he wouldn't freak out and panic while in a compromising situation? Just food for thought.
    My name is TooCoolforschool and I am a chronic over charger.

  8. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Tenn
    Posts
    139
    Quote Originally Posted by toocoolforschool View Post
    A big ego does not make a good technician but it will make a lot of enemies. Being humble the the right amount of knowledge and open mindedness is just as important as being trained to do a job. If one has a fear of heights wouldn't that be considered along the lines of a disability, in other words being in a union, or team atmosphere, his mates would give him jobs where he wouldn't freak out and panic while in a compromising situation? Just food for thought.
    If someone is going to work in HVAC, has it been your experience that laddaers are something that they can avoid? I work primarilly in refrigeration, yet I am expected to service roof top HVAC units for restuarants where I service refrigeration and cooking equipment. There are a few, mostly Pizza Huts, that access the roof from inside the kitchen, and usually the ladder is bolted to the wall in the rear of the kitchen, but if you are going to work on these HVAC's, you'll need to climb a ladder. I suppose you could see it as a disability, but it would be a disability that might make one unable to maintain employment in this field.

  9. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,663
    Quote Originally Posted by Bobbycold View Post
    If someone is going to work in HVAC, has it been your experience that laddaers are something that they can avoid? I work primarilly in refrigeration, yet I am expected to service roof top HVAC units for restuarants where I service refrigeration and cooking equipment. There are a few, mostly Pizza Huts, that access the roof from inside the kitchen, and usually the ladder is bolted to the wall in the rear of the kitchen, but if you are going to work on these HVAC's, you'll need to climb a ladder. I suppose you could see it as a disability, but it would be a disability that might make one unable to maintain employment in this field.
    Yes you are correct my view is; in this country with all of it's disabilties and people getting money every month for phantom sicknesses we could strap this kid up with a crane and suspend him from the raftors untill he overcomes his "dissability."
    My name is TooCoolforschool and I am a chronic over charger.

  10. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    354
    I was shaky on ladders when I started out...you get over it .

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    469
    The hands in the pocket, was worse than the ladder. If your a little hesitant on ladders U need to make up for it in other ways. Once you saw the filters were hard to get at did u ask mechanic would you like me to get a metal Hanger. Or did you have a 5/16 ready so he can remove the screws before he asked.
    Did you have a garbage bag ready so the dust dosn't spread over the customers space.

    He's an ass anyway you should of got a Stern warning,, Don't give up and jump ship yet. Just learn from it.

    Do you know what the hanger is for? it's to fish out the farthest filter im sure it was needed.
    If the company had a little giant im sure you woul'd still be employed,, It's a group fault.
    Customer is alWays opposite of Left

  12. #38
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    469
    Memorize this
    By Mason

    Here's my approach, be nice to everyone that isn't a complete a'hole and even be nice to them until they ruin it. Help everyone as much as possible, I don't hoard anything, everything I've learned(mostly this site) I share with anyone who ask's or is open to learning. I do every job well, want me to install ok, put that run up in the 1 block swamp house ok, spider man my way though trusses running flex ok, change out that compressor ok, as long as the company has my back and I'm getting paid there is no work beneath mason. I try to be the ultimate team player, now if a manager or owner decides he's not into that then they shouldn't be surprised when I go find another company to bring my work ethic and skills to.
    Customer is alWays opposite of Left

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    3,415
    Quote Originally Posted by Kobe RBVBD View Post
    I think there is a misunderstanding here. I have trained over 10 people through my career, so far. I never said I did not train. I do teach them thoroughly and freely from day one. If someone has worked under me for 6 months, they would leave with a decent basis for being a residential installer sans the A/C side. The A/C side of residential would take a fair bit longer to teach, but even so they should be somewhat competent if lacking experience after a year working under me.

    The ones that successfully learned under me were the ones who worked hard and did not feel entitled to my time. The ones that were not successful, started talking **** about me to others after a year, saying they could do it better, were given a truck to prove it, and utterly failed. Not to mention, since they talked **** about me, they did not get my support after they stopped being my apprentice. So when they learned that being on your own and having to make all the calls was not as easy as I made it look, they had burned the bridge with me and eventually got fired for incompetence and because I refused to teach them further.

    The ones that were successful are the ones who were grateful for my time and effort teaching, because once they worked on their own, I was willing to fill all the holes in their knowledge and help them out when they make a bad judgement call.

    That is why I don't understand the comments about being entitled to learn. No one is entitled to it. I also never said I was entitled to getting extra pay for training. I said that I was not getting compensated for training the person, so I had no inherent obligation to do so. That I (or any journeyman) take the time to teach should be seen as a bonus to be grateful for, not something to be expected.
    No longer a misunderstanding as far as I'm concerned...thanks for the clarification.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Comfortech Show Promo Image

Related Forums

Plumbing Talks | Contractor Magazine
Forums | Electrical Construction & Maintenance (EC&M) Magazine
Comfortech365 Virtual Event