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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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    Temperature rise on defrost

    Hey guys, today I was at a major member warehouse store and the manager was asking me about product temperature rise during defrost. They were saying that they were getting alot of flac from corporate food safety auditors about product surface temp rising above food safety levels during defrost. I explained to them, especially with coffin cases, it can be nearly impossible to not have surface temps rise above safety levels for a short time. I showed them that the case specs called for a temp term of 50 degrees. They were cool with my response but were looking for more of an explanation for when the auditors come by. Does anybody have some advise, or articles on the subject?

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    25,870
    Tell the auditor to shove their IR thermometer up their backside.

    Those things are the cause of more unnecessary service calls than I care to count.

    If they really want an "explanation" give them a defrost schedule.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    Western KY
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    1,221
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    Tell the auditor to shove their IR thermometer up their backside.

    Those things are the cause of more unnecessary service calls than I care to count.

    If they really want an "explanation" give them a defrost schedule.
    Ya. What he said.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    St. Louis
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    122
    Name:  timeclock.jpg
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    the bad news is, more electric defrosts really bump air temp.


    the good news is that proactive defrosts, heater management and sublimation can really reduce the temperature swing
    Name:  proactive defrost.jpg
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    If the air temp is only high for a short time ("short" is relative) the product temp may be relatively stable, but it is easy to understand that the tighter the air temp is held, the tighter the product temp will be held
    In an infinite universe, not only are all things possible, all things are necessary

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Western KY
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    Get a small bottle, fill it with glycol, put a thermometer through the lid and seal it, put bottle in the space, tell auditor that is the actual product temp. Take his little laser and smash it on the floor, give him the battery back cause its the only part that works, then walk away. Good luck.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    hearth planet
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    88
    BDOLIN do you have any information about proactive defrosts? I am interested in that
    thanks

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Chicagoland Area
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    4,760
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy knocker View Post
    Get a small bottle, fill it with glycol, put a thermometer through the lid and seal it, put bottle in the space, tell auditor that is the actual product temp. Take his little laser and smash it on the floor, give him the battery back cause its the only part that works, then walk away. Good luck.
    This is good advice
    Officially, Down for the count

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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
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    10,460
    To my knowledge, most government food safety regulations as they relate to retail frozen foods require the "internal" product temperature to be maintained at 0F and allow for periodic temperature rise to +10F for defrost. They also typically provide the methodology for measuring the "internal" temperature with a suitable probe to the center of suspect product sample.

    State inspectors I have witnessed, although they often use infrared thermometers for general temperature checks, will usually resort to an "internal" probe test if something doesn't look right. Sometimes they need a little prod in that direction though.

    In-house inspectors may well have different guidelines, including checking surface temperatures, but I think they need to understand that all we can do as technicians is to insure that the equipment is operating as designed for its purpose. If they require performance above and beyond that, then perhaps they need to discuss it with their store engineering people...unless, of course, you are also their engineer.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    florida
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    5,514
    Quote Originally Posted by icemeister View Post
    To my knowledge, most government food safety regulations as they relate to retail frozen foods require the "internal" product temperature to be maintained at 0F and allow for periodic temperature rise to +10F for defrost. They also typically provide the methodology for measuring the "internal" temperature with a suitable probe to the center of suspect product sample.

    State inspectors I have witnessed, although they often use infrared thermometers for general temperature checks, will usually resort to an "internal" probe test if something doesn't look right. Sometimes they need a little prod in that direction though.

    In-house inspectors may well have different guidelines, including checking surface temperatures, but I think they need to understand that all we can do as technicians is to insure that the equipment is operating as designed for its purpose. If they require performance above and beyond that, then perhaps they need to discuss it with their store engineering people...unless, of course, you are also their engineer.

    Yep well said.
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
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    You could change the defrost schedules so that there are no defrosts in the problem cases during times when inspectors are likely to show up.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    The Pas, Manitoba Canada
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    214
    Quote Originally Posted by craig1 View Post
    You could change the defrost schedules so that there are no defrosts in the problem cases during times when inspectors are likely to show up.
    This is the one I've had the best results with. Make sure you get the coffin back on a defrost asap

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
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    Maine
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2sac View Post
    This is good advice
    I like it.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Michigan
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    12,077
    KE2 Therm taking the refrigeration world by storm. I will be seeing mucho grande of this shortly and need to get studied up.

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