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Thread: r22 conversions

  1. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
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    Michigan
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    12,077
    Like Matt just said Ice. Customer is requiring ball valves and stuff. I did not understand the swelling and just read more about that, your right on.

    Its a pretty big job in short time frame for a typical store, with a few guys. Its not a cake walk.

    Its gonna be a lot of work for a long time all over the country.

  2. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Detroit vicinity, Michigan
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    79
    We had a meeting with the owner of a large reclaiming/recycling company and there were two shocking items he brought up. The Gov plan counted on a huge jump in returned gas around this time due to the "hack" changing colors and actually starting to reclaim the "gold" and turn it in. His outlook "yeah, not gonna happen IMO. Once a a hack, always a hack." OSh*t now what?
    The second being the new blends do not work for flooded evaps due to fractionalization, Mr.Heavytonnage start worrying. A Dupont chemist never told him this so he never told us this......."there is nothing to replace 22 in flooded evap applications. No we are not working on one, if we were to start today at our pace it would be 15 yrs till it hit the market."

  3. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    24,998
    Quote Originally Posted by icemeister View Post
    So are we mainly talking about shraders and O-rings, or are other types of seals require replacing? IOW, On a typical market refrigerant retrofit, what seals are the main culprits?
    Older sporlan solenoid valves get changed.

    SORIT valves get changes.

    SPORT A8 valves typically don't need it, but we've got kits there just in case.

    Oil system o-rings get changed.

    Sentronic sending unit o-rings get changed.

    Here's the BEST part... Some of the older ball valves will leak like a mad mother.

  4. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Guayaquil EC
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    10,093
    This is good stuff.

    Here's a few more questions for you:

    Apparently then, the ball valves (older ones in particular) are a major problem area, but I think it's important to know why they're being replaced rather than repaired or upgraded...and are the leaks occurring at the stem, the ball, or both? I know Henry has a stem seal repair kit, but I'm not up on the others out there.

    It sounds like the owners typically have a blanket ball valve replacement requirement. How necessary is full replacement over repair? Do the new valve's seal materials resist swelling from R22 so you can safely change them out ahead of retrofit day? If they did, wouldn't that save a boatload of time and effort?

    Also, it looks like most of the work is done in the compressor room with not much to do at the cases other than possibly the shrader cores. How many shraders do you find actually leaking after a conversion?

    Are the conversions done quickly enough so the cases don't need to be pulled, or do you just need an extra guy to keep the store manager calmed down?

  5. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    373
    It's $667 here + tax

  6. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    24,998
    Quote Originally Posted by icemeister View Post
    This is good stuff.

    Here's a few more questions for you:

    Apparently then, the ball valves (older ones in particular) are a major problem area, but I think it's important to know why they're being replaced rather than repaired or upgraded...and are the leaks occurring at the stem, the ball, or both? I know Henry has a stem seal repair kit, but I'm not up on the others out there.

    It sounds like the owners typically have a blanket ball valve replacement requirement. How necessary is full replacement over repair? Do the new valve's seal materials resist swelling from R22 so you can safely change them out ahead of retrofit day? If they did, wouldn't that save a boatload of time and effort?

    Also, it looks like most of the work is done in the compressor room with not much to do at the cases other than possibly the shrader cores. How many shraders do you find actually leaking after a conversion?

    Are the conversions done quickly enough so the cases don't need to be pulled, or do you just need an extra guy to keep the store manager calmed down?
    We try to avoid replacement due to labor costs. These are bid jobs and that's all we're getting and we typically don't bid to replace the ball valves.

    I believe that the ones that I see leak the most are Superior valves. The ones with a seal-cap that must be removed before the valve can be accessed.

    The newer ball valves don't seem to be as much of a problem. Maybe a packing tightened up here or there, but easily repairable.

    The old ones?? Get the torch out.

  7. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Detroit vicinity, Michigan
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    79
    Quote Originally Posted by jpsmith1cm View Post
    We try to avoid replacement due to labor costs. These are bid jobs and that's all we're getting and we typically don't bid to replace the ball valves.

    I believe that the ones that I see leak the most are Superior valves. The ones with a seal-cap that must be removed before the valve can be accessed.

    The newer ball valves don't seem to be as much of a problem. Maybe a packing tightened up here or there, but easily repairable.

    The old ones?? Get the torch out.
    How are you handling the leaks after the fact? Are any items not replaced in the quote excluded from warranty?

  8. #34
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    Jun 2001
    Location
    Michigan
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    JP, so ball valves and what not, your customers are not requiring it?

  9. #35
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    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dowadudda View Post
    JP, so ball valves and what not, your customers are not requiring it?
    Nope. Not as of yet.

  10. #36
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    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Workin4TheMan View Post
    How are you handling the leaks after the fact? Are any items not replaced in the quote excluded from warranty?
    Customer provides refrigerant for the job. We always order extra and leave it onsite for a week or two.

    We provide the labor and any materials.

    Excluded? Our customer doesn't know the meaning of the word...

  11. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Barbados
    Posts
    33
    Guys,

    has anyone used BMP 438 to replace R-22 in any racks? We have a customer here who's considering it. Aside from the 20% loss in capacity are there any other draw backs?

  12. #38
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    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dowadudda View Post
    JP, so ball valves and what not, your customers are not requiring it?
    Adding to this because I'm not sure I completely answered your question.

    We aren't required to change the ball valves as yet.

    We ARE required to change oil (we also must provide an oil analysis report from national), o-rings, driers, filters etc. Pretty basic stuff, I think.

    I don't have the requirements in front of me nor do I have them memorized, but that's about the nutshell of it.


    Icemeister, I forgot an o-ring that NEEDS to be changed... Remember those Alco TEVs that have an O-ring sealed strainer? Ya better get them, too.

  13. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Western PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnarly View Post
    Guys,

    has anyone used BMP 438 to replace R-22 in any racks? We have a customer here who's considering it. Aside from the 20% loss in capacity are there any other draw backs?
    Can your equipment afford a 20% loss in capacity?

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