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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    22

    Help to settle debate

    I have my journeymans license, I got a few months ago, but I am no longer in the field. I did some install work, some service and now do insurance. I know very little about commercial. I talked to my friend yest who mostly does PM on commercial equipment. I asked how was your week...he said busy doing PMs on a 10,000sq ft restaurant. Just for converstaion I asked how big were the units. He said they had 7 ten-ton carrier water to air heat pumps? I said 70 tons seems like a lot, he told me I didnt know what I was talking about, and I kinda dropped it. I was just thinking....Do restaurants really use that much tonage? Just seems crazy...but who knows? Anyone service restaurants...like a typical stekhouse type?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    2,843
    Without actually seeing it, who knows?

    Keep in mind that a restaurant has a huge amount of ventilation air for the dining area, makeup air for the kitchen, and a lot of equipment that produces either heat or steam.

    The numbers you posted aren't entirely unreasonable.
    "If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a KA." - Albert Einstein

    It's later than you think.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    22
    Thanks...that exhaust and make up air makes sense. What size units say olive garden, outback size be...any guesses? Would they have something as big as 10 tons or several 7.5 tons?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    2,843
    I could be anything, really. An olive garden in Florida isn't going to have the same sizes or even types of equipment as an identical building in Arizona.

    Sometimes people use an assortment of smaller units that they can hide behind a parapet instead of one the size of a school bus on the roof. Sometimes you have a dining room with one unit that runs all the time, and another one that only kicks on when they're having a party with a bunch of people.
    "If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a KA." - Albert Einstein

    It's later than you think.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    11,808
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphtheplumber View Post
    Without actually seeing it, who knows?

    Keep in mind that a restaurant has a huge amount of ventilation air for the dining area, makeup air for the kitchen, and a lot of equipment that produces either heat or steam.

    The numbers you posted aren't entirely unreasonable.
    I would agree
    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    33,895
    Friend of mine opened a little pizza joint. 1000 sq ft building, only windows are on the west. Came with a new 3 ton split. Landlord said that would be fine. HA. We added 5 tons to it and in 90+ weather, 8 tons doesn't do it when busy. We do have the 2nd unit as stage 2 so it comes on when the little guy can't keep up.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    11,808
    Quote Originally Posted by ralphtheplumber View Post
    I could be anything, really. An olive garden in Florida isn't going to have the same sizes or even types of equipment as an identical building in Arizona.

    Sometimes people use an assortment of smaller units that they can hide behind a parapet instead of one the size of a school bus on the roof. Sometimes you have a dining room with one unit that runs all the time, and another one that only kicks on when they're having a party with a bunch of people.
    The 10,000 square foot could mean 500 to 600 people in there, ventilation without heat/energy recovery could easily eat up half of that 70 tons. Makes a difference where you are and how humid it is. People be another 20 to 25 tons.
    Last edited by Carnak; 01-25-2007 at 12:59 PM.
    The way we build has a greater impact on our comfort, energy consumption and IAQ than any HVAC system we install.

    http://www.ductstrap.com/

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    22
    Looks like he was right. I guess the restaurant business is a whole different game. Would someone care to guess what size or how many units a typical Outback type place would have on there roof? seats about 250? With and w/out energy recovery units?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    crossville
    Posts
    608

    I do an Outback

    I take care of many places that this isnt unreasonable
    the Outback here has 8 ten ton carriers and when the restaurnat is full of people it can be stuffy after several hours, also there isnt an smoking ban yet that is another factor, lastly with 10% make up air your load goes up, they have 30 tons in the kitchen and its hot in there from the vent a hood system drawing it out as fast as it goes in.
    i hae seen Cracker Barrels with 10 units 7.5 tons and up
    abmittedly they stage under lighter loads but yep high load its fair
    If you cant cool it
    HEAT THE Hello out of it

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    fort myers,FL
    Posts
    28

    Thumbs up there's no debate

    I don't see a debate. My first job we had the tri county area red lobster & olive gardens which here were owned by the same company. They were all 7-10 units anywhere from 7.5 -10 ton units. you do a manual J or one of the newer programs on a pc add in all the details.ALL the details! (biggest problem people have sizing equipment these days is skipping the small things)
    and size with that.. only we any of us could agree or disagree is to be there ourselves and give our own awnser....

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Orange County N.Y.
    Posts
    1,176
    Quote Originally Posted by gpalasz View Post
    Thanks...that exhaust and make up air makes sense. What size units say olive garden, outback size be...any guesses? Would they have something as big as 10 tons or several 7.5 tons?
    I've done chain restaurants and 70 tons is not out of line. Pack a couple hundred people into a relatively small area on a saturday night in the summer and you bet you'll need every bit of that tonnage and sometimes more. Different size stores will have different size equipment on them. It sounds like your friends site is a smaller store if the largest units are 10 ton.

    One of my restaraunt chain stores has 15 RTUs, 9 exhaust fans, 3 MUAs, and 2 grease fans. Better than 1/2 of the RTUs are 20 to 24 tons each. This site is uncommon but it is an eating establishment.

    ...Ron
    Roof Rat

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Spokane Wa
    Posts
    169
    I service an Applebees they have 4 7 and a half ton units and a five ton. So thats 35 tons all RTU'S. Plus they have a mua unit with a gas option. No evaporative option. I am not sure about their footprint but it is probably under 10000 sq ft

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Tillsonburg ON
    Posts
    28

    Commercial Restaraunts

    It's all we do. We don't do anything else. It's our specialty and we run all the time. 70 tons is not out of the way, it's common. Heck we even a couple of stores with 50 tons of cooling on the MAU's and over 200,000 Btu of heat. They typically feed the kitchen right by the all the hoods. It's (the MAU) sized for 80% of the grease fan CFM's. If you get a chance to work on them, try, you'll like it.

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